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Should the Mentally Ill Be Restricted from Owning Guns?
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:39 am
by Gary Childress
If a person is unstable mentally, say with bipolar disorder or depression, should they be denied access to firearms? It seems like we've had a few mentally unstable people go on shooting sprees recently in the US. Would it help to have mandatory background checks on people to make sure they don't have a mental illness? What about mandatory psychological testing before the purchase of any gun to prove that a person is not mentally unstable?
Re: Should the Mentally Ill Be Restricted from Owning Guns?
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:48 pm
by Terrapin Station
Federal law in the US already prohibits gun sales to people with a history of mental illness.
Re: Should the Mentally Ill Be Restricted from Owning Guns?
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:49 pm
by Lacewing
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:39 am
What about mandatory psychological testing before the purchase of any gun to prove that a person is not mentally unstable?
That sounds like a good idea.
A great number of the human population is mentally unstable, and it doesn't make sense to hand them weapons and hope they can "hold it together".
Upholding/supporting their supposed "rights" to own weapons is not upholding/supporting other's "rights" to live. How does that even make sense?
Re: Should the Mentally Ill Be Restricted from Owning Guns?
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:38 pm
by DPMartin
Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 3:49 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:39 am
What about mandatory psychological testing before the purchase of any gun to prove that a person is not mentally unstable?
That sounds like a good idea.
A great number of the human population is mentally unstable, and it doesn't make sense to hand them weapons and hope they can "hold it together".
Upholding/supporting their supposed "rights" to own weapons is not upholding/supporting other's "rights" to live. How does that even make sense?
if they want to take out groups of people there's more than one way to do that. guns aren't mandatory for taking out thy neighbor, its media friendly for 2nd amendment controversy.
Re: Should the Mentally Ill Be Restricted from Owning Guns?
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:43 pm
by Lacewing
DPMartin wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:38 pm
if they want to take out groups of people there's more than one way to do that.
Why is that a reason to put guns in their hands?
DPMartin wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 4:38 pmguns aren't mandatory for taking out thy neighbor, its media friendly for 2nd amendment controversy.
Blaming the media for everything is lazy. We need to think smarter. How is arming everyone -- regardless of their mental imbalance -- intelligent or appropriate?
Re: Should the Mentally Ill Be Restricted from Owning Guns?
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:04 pm
by henry quirk
Wasn't too long ago that homosexuality was considered a mental illness.
Should gays have been prohibited from owning a firearm based on what amounts to a shifty, shifting, definition of sanity?
Schizophrenia can be debilitating, but, with treatment, can be largely controlled: should folks with controlled schizophrenia be disallowed from owning a gun?
Here, in 'murica, certain strains of political thought are bein' categorized as extreme, bordering on psychotic.
Should folks with currently unpopular views be prevented from owning a firearm?
Who sets the bar?
Re: Should the Mentally Ill Be Restricted from Owning Guns?
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:15 pm
by Lacewing
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:04 pm
Wasn't too long ago that homosexuality was considered a mental illness.
Should gays have been prohibited from owning a firearm based on what amounts to a shifty, shifting, definition of sanity?
Schizophrenia can be debilitating, but, with treatment, can be largely controlled: should folks with controlled schizophrenia be disallowed from owning a gun?
Here, in 'murica, certain strains of political thought are bein' categorized as
extreme, bordering on psychotic.
Should folks with currently unpopular views be prevented from owning a firearm?
Who sets the bar?
A psychological test doesn't need to get tangled up in all of that.
Re: Should the Mentally Ill Be Restricted from Owning Guns?
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:55 pm
by henry quirk
Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:15 pm
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:04 pm
Wasn't too long ago that homosexuality was considered a mental illness.
Should gays have been prohibited from owning a firearm based on what amounts to a shifty, shifting, definition of sanity?
Schizophrenia can be debilitating, but, with treatment, can be largely controlled: should folks with controlled schizophrenia be disallowed from owning a gun?
Here, in 'murica, certain strains of political thought are bein' categorized as
extreme, bordering on psychotic.
Should folks with currently unpopular views be prevented from owning a firearm?
Who sets the bar?
A psychological test doesn't need to get tangled up in all of that.
As I say, not too long ago, homosexuality was viewed as mental illness...by psychologists...who ran tests.
They were wrong then, they can be wrong now.
Re: Should the Mentally Ill Be Restricted from Owning Guns?
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:59 pm
by Lacewing
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:55 pm
Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:15 pm
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:04 pm
Wasn't too long ago that homosexuality was considered a mental illness.
Should gays have been prohibited from owning a firearm based on what amounts to a shifty, shifting, definition of sanity?
Schizophrenia can be debilitating, but, with treatment, can be largely controlled: should folks with controlled schizophrenia be disallowed from owning a gun?
Here, in 'murica, certain strains of political thought are bein' categorized as
extreme, bordering on psychotic.
Should folks with currently unpopular views be prevented from owning a firearm?
Who sets the bar?
A psychological test doesn't need to get tangled up in all of that.
As I say, not too long ago, homosexuality was viewed as mental illness...by psychologists...who ran tests.
They were wrong then, they can be wrong now.
So, what do you suggest?
Re: Should the Mentally Ill Be Restricted from Owning Guns?
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:10 pm
by henry quirk
Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:59 pm
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:55 pm
Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:15 pm
A psychological test doesn't need to get tangled up in all of that.
As I say, not too long ago, homosexuality was viewed as mental illness...by psychologists...who ran tests.
They were wrong then, they can be wrong now.
So, what do you suggest?
Innocent till proven guilty.
Don't punish before a crime is committed.
Re: Should the Mentally Ill Be Restricted from Owning Guns?
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:44 pm
by Sculptor
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:39 am
If a person is unstable mentally, say with bipolar disorder or depression, should they be denied access to firearms? It seems like we've had a few mentally unstable people go on shooting sprees recently in the US. Would it help to have mandatory background checks on people to make sure they don't have a mental illness? What about mandatory psychological testing before the purchase of any gun to prove that a person is not mentally unstable?
Guns ought to be permitted on a need to own basis.
Since the only valid practical use for a fire-arm is to commit a crime, I see no reason why anyone should be permitted to own one.
A strict licencing system ought to be the norm, and loss of licence ought to follow any infraction much the same as we licence car driving. Why not guns too.
Re: Should the Mentally Ill Be Restricted from Owning Guns?
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:47 pm
by Sculptor
Terrapin Station wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 1:48 pm
Federal law in the US already prohibits gun sales to people with a history of mental illness.
A person that commits the crime of a mass shooting has a mental illness.
So, clearly the prohibition does not go far enough.
Without a proper licencing system to onus is placed on the police to prove mental instability, as there is a presumption of a right to own.
I suggest mental competance ought to be established to gain a licence. Ownership without a licence needs to attract sever deterent punishment.
Re: Should the Mentally Ill Be Restricted from Owning Guns?
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:50 pm
by Gary Childress
Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:44 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:39 am
If a person is unstable mentally, say with bipolar disorder or depression, should they be denied access to firearms? It seems like we've had a few mentally unstable people go on shooting sprees recently in the US. Would it help to have mandatory background checks on people to make sure they don't have a mental illness? What about mandatory psychological testing before the purchase of any gun to prove that a person is not mentally unstable?
Guns ought to be permitted on a need to own basis.
Since the only valid practical use for a fire-arm is to commit a crime, I see no reason why anyone should be permitted to own one.
A strict licencing system ought to be the norm, and loss of licence ought to follow any infraction much the same as we licence car driving. Why not guns too.
People also use guns for sport hunting and recreational target practice. If people are safe and responsible, then those activities can be engaged in safely. Unfortunately, not everyone is mature and responsible enough to handle firearms appropriately, it seems. So I agree that such things should be licensed and any infraction results in the suspension of that license. And I believe that mental illness should preclude one from being able to own or possess a firearm.
Re: Should the Mentally Ill Be Restricted from Owning Guns?
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:56 pm
by Gary Childress
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:10 pm
Lacewing wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:59 pm
henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 7:55 pm
As I say, not too long ago, homosexuality was viewed as mental illness...by psychologists...who ran tests.
They were wrong then, they can be wrong now.
So, what do you suggest?
Innocent till proven guilty.
Don't punish before a crime is committed.
I believe Ireland has very strict gun ownership laws. I believe almost no one is allowed to carry them there. And they don't have the same problems we have with gun violence. Unfortunately, after the fact seems to mean, after people get murdered. In both recent cases, If I understand correctly, I believe people close to the perpetrators saw signs and didn't say anything or else alerted authorities and nothing was done.
Re: Should the Mentally Ill Be Restricted from Owning Guns?
Posted: Wed Mar 24, 2021 11:05 pm
by Sculptor
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:50 pm
Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:44 pm
Gary Childress wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:39 am
If a person is unstable mentally, say with bipolar disorder or depression, should they be denied access to firearms? It seems like we've had a few mentally unstable people go on shooting sprees recently in the US. Would it help to have mandatory background checks on people to make sure they don't have a mental illness? What about mandatory psychological testing before the purchase of any gun to prove that a person is not mentally unstable?
Guns ought to be permitted on a need to own basis.
Since the only valid practical use for a fire-arm is to commit a crime, I see no reason why anyone should be permitted to own one.
A strict licencing system ought to be the norm, and loss of licence ought to follow any infraction much the same as we licence car driving. Why not guns too.
People also use guns for sport hunting and recreational target practice.
I would suggest that is mostly a vanity that the USA cannot afford to continue to persue. However if the NRA had a more sensible policy on licencing I see no reason this could not continue. As it is the NRA seem quite happy for there to be more guns than enough to keep criminals well supplied.
If people are safe and responsible, then those activities can be engaged in safely. Unfortunately, not everyone is mature and responsible enough to handle firearms appropriately, it seems. So I agree that such things should be licensed and any infraction results in the suspension of that license. And I believe that mental illness should preclude one from being able to own or possess a firearm.