Philosophy Now Forum

Although wealth and integration are major components of success, we must also consider the difference between people who were given support on every other level v. those who were given interference. No matter where you start, you can easily be brought low by an avalanche of do-gooding busy-bodies.

Advocate wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:12 pm Although wealth and integration are major components of success, we must also consider the difference between people who were given support on every other level v. those who were given interference. No matter where you start, you can easily be brought low by an avalanche of do-gooding busy-bodies.

What do 'you' mean by the word 'wealth' here?

Does this have ANY thing to do with 'monetary values'?

If yes, then you are SADLY MISTAKEN here about 'success', itself. Unless, OF COURSE, 'you', "advocate", SEE just the obtaining of the Truly insignificant AND unnecessary 'thing', called, "money" as being 'success', which, if you did, then SHOWS and REVEALS just how twisted AND distorted one's views and/or BELIEFS can and do become.

You cannot examine the ethics of success without first establishing what you mean by “success”.

[quote=commonsense post_id=485637 time=1608475876 user_id=14610]
You cannot examine the ethics of success without first establishing what you mean by “success”.
[/quote]

There are two distinct variations, the vernacular one which means success according to typical social standards, and the actually useful one which means to have a bespoke life at whatever level.

Advocate wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:12 pm Although wealth and integration are major components of success, we must also consider the difference between people who were given support on every other level v. those who were given interference. No matter where you start, you can easily be brought low by an avalanche of do-gooding busy-bodies.

I've read this twice. I have no idea what you are trying to get at.

[quote=Sculptor post_id=485645 time=1608477327 user_id=17400]
[quote=Advocate post_id=485237 time=1608214341 user_id=15238]
Although wealth and integration are major components of success, we must also consider the difference between people who were given support on every other level v. those who were given interference. No matter where you start, you can easily be brought low by an avalanche of do-gooding busy-bodies.
[/quote]

O've read this twice. I have no idea what you are trying to get at.
[/quote]

There is no way to measure success by consequence without first accounting for circumstance. The same person can succeed or fail based on entirely external circumstances beyond their ability to anticipate or control. Particularly that means the overall kind of interactions they have with others. The true value of an individual is in their potential, not in their success.

Advocate wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:12 pm Although wealth and integration are major components of success, we must also consider the difference between people who were given support on every other level v. those who were given interference. No matter where you start, you can easily be brought low by an avalanche of do-gooding busy-bodies.

Maybe 'satisfaction' might be a better foundation of 'success' that you mean? To be 'satisfied' about something is to appreciate your present conditions in light of intending to be where you are at now as a PRIOR goal. So "success" might be defined as "the satisfaction one feels when reaching an intended goal one sets out to have."? [working definition proposal for you, if you like]

[quote="Scott Mayers" post_id=485659 time=1608480017 user_id=11118]
[quote=Advocate post_id=485237 time=1608214341 user_id=15238]
Although wealth and integration are major components of success, we must also consider the difference between people who were given support on every other level v. those who were given interference. No matter where you start, you can easily be brought low by an avalanche of do-gooding busy-bodies.
[/quote]

Maybe '[b]satisfaction[/b]' might be a better foundation of '[b]success[/b]' that you mean? To be 'satisfied' about something is to appreciate your present conditions in light of intending to be where you are at now as a PRIOR goal. So "[b][u]success[/u][/b]" might be defined as "[b]the satisfaction one feels when reaching an intended goal one sets out to have.[/b]"? [working definition proposal for you, if you like]
[/quote]

My formulation: success = having a bespoke life

Advocate wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:27 pm

Scott Mayers wrote: ↑Sun Dec 20, 2020 5:00 pm

Advocate wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:12 pm Although wealth and integration are major components of success, we must also consider the difference between people who were given support on every other level v. those who were given interference. No matter where you start, you can easily be brought low by an avalanche of do-gooding busy-bodies.

Maybe 'satisfaction' might be a better foundation of 'success' that you mean? To be 'satisfied' about something is to appreciate your present conditions in light of intending to be where you are at now as a PRIOR goal. So "success" might be defined as "the satisfaction one feels when reaching an intended goal one sets out to have."? [working definition proposal for you, if you like]

My formulation: success = having a bespoke life

"Bespoke" is an odd and unconventional term that needs defining.

I see it as

Wikipedia "Bespoke" wrote:The word bespoke has evolved from a verb meaning 'to speak for something' to its contemporary usage as an adjective that has changed from describing first tailor-made suits and shoes, and later, anything ...[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bespoke]

It is still odd to use and very archaic. I see that you may mean, "ordered, commissioned, arranged for...life." using the definition given at the above link. But this lacks depth and meaning. It could be mistaken for meaning,

"Success == predestination"

Edit: or "Success = tailored for.." but leaves it dangling. It certainly cannot DEFINE the term though. It could only mean that you think "success is individually tailored by the person who uses the word" but doesn't define it; it only expresses that people can create their own definition of the term, which would be misleading to your intent. It also applies to any word and one's chosen association, like "Let me define the word, car to mean boat."

Edit 2: Example of your meaning might be as a 'metaphor', such as, "Life is like a box of chocolates". Then you are referring to the religious or emotive 'value' of life, for instance.

[quote="Scott Mayers" post_id=485664 time=1608482641 user_id=11118]
[quote=Advocate post_id=485662 time=1608481642 user_id=15238]
[quote="Scott Mayers" post_id=485659 time=1608480017 user_id=11118]


Maybe '[b]satisfaction[/b]' might be a better foundation of '[b]success[/b]' that you mean? To be 'satisfied' about something is to appreciate your present conditions in light of intending to be where you are at now as a PRIOR goal. So "[b][u]success[/u][/b]" might be defined as "[b]the satisfaction one feels when reaching an intended goal one sets out to have.[/b]"? [working definition proposal for you, if you like]
[/quote]

My formulation: success = having a bespoke life[/quote]

"Bespoke" is an odd and unconventional term that needs defining.

I see it as [quote=Wikipedia "Bespoke"]The word bespoke has evolved from a verb meaning 'to speak for something' to its contemporary usage as an adjective that has changed [u]from describing first tailor-made suits and shoes[/u], and later, anything ...[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bespoke]
[/quote]
It is still odd to use and very archaic. I see that you may mean, "ordered, commissioned, arranged for...life." using the definition given at the above link. But this lacks depth and meaning. It could be mistaken for meaning,

[b]"Success == [u]predestination[/u]"[/b] :?:

[b]Edit:[/b] or "[b]Success = tailored for..[/b]" but leaves it dangling. It certainly cannot DEFINE the term though. It could only mean that you think [b]"success is individually tailored by the person who uses the word"[/b] but doesn't [b]define[/b] it; it only expresses that people can create their own definition of the term, which would be misleading to your intent. It also applies to any word and one's chosen association, like "Let me define the word, [b]car[/b] to mean [u]boat[/u]."

[b]Edit 2: [/b]Example of your meaning might be as a 'metaphor', such as, "Life is like a box of chocolates". Then you are referring to the religious or emotive 'value' of life, for instance.
[/quote]

Custom. For some it's wealth, for others it's simplicity, love, family, and so forth. The meaning of life is that everyone must choose the answer to that question for themselves.