Philosophy Now Forum

(aka leveling the playing field)

Because money and power inherently perpetuate themselves without regard for the distinction between merit and opportunity, price and value, it is a primary function of government to ensure equality of sufficiency and equality of opportunity in particular. To the extent that is impossible, redistribution is necessary.

Of course.
But since money and power invariably corrupt government, government does that job in inverse proportion to its corruption.
Thus, you can measure the degree to which a government is corrupt by the disparity of its citizens' standard of living.

individuals are never equal

-Imp

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:33 pm individuals are never equal

-Imp

And this affects the government ensuring each individual sufficiency and opportunity - how?

Skip wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:13 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:33 pm individuals are never equal

-Imp

And this affects the government ensuring each individual sufficiency and opportunity - how?

government is not created to ensure sufficiency

promises of sufficiency are simple plays to human greed... be a good citizen and we'll give you utopia...

revolution is closer than we dream

-Imp

[quote=Impenitent post_id=484701 time=1607897454 user_id=3944]
[quote=Skip post_id=484676 time=1607886815 user_id=6255]
[quote=Impenitent post_id=484670 time=1607884410 user_id=3944]
individuals are never equal

-Imp
[/quote]
And this affects the government ensuring each individual [b]sufficiency and opportunity [/b] - how?
[/quote]

government is not created to ensure sufficiency

promises of sufficiency are simple plays to human greed... be a good citizen and we'll give you utopia...

revolution is closer than we dream

-Imp
[/quote]

Sufficiency and greed are polar opposites.

Advocate wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:21 pm

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:10 pm

Skip wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 8:13 pm And this affects the government ensuring each individual sufficiency and opportunity - how?

government is not created to ensure sufficiency

promises of sufficiency are simple plays to human greed... be a good citizen and we'll give you utopia...

revolution is closer than we dream

-Imp

Sufficiency and greed are polar opposites.

no, sufficiency and excess are polar opposites- greed underlies both

gimmie gimmie gimmie utopia

-Imp

Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Dec 12, 2020 5:44 pm (aka leveling the playing field)

Because money and power inherently perpetuate themselves without regard for the distinction between merit and opportunity, price and value, it is a primary function of government to ensure equality of sufficiency and equality of opportunity in particular. To the extent that is impossible, redistribution is necessary.

Sadly this is a function of governement sadly neglected, worst, vilified.

Mr Amazon, Mr Microsoft, Mr Apple, and Mr Paypal are not individuals that are smart enough to deserve the rewards they now have. Whilst nurses and other low paid workers are now dependant on food banks, no one is worth their obscene wealth until poverty is redressed. They are people who were in the right place at the right time. Their massive success is due wholly to the pre-existing infrastructure of society in material, resources, and people educated enough to employ their services. They ought to be responsible to put back hard cash to maintain and grow the infrastructure upon which they depend, and to redress the inbalances that are the result of the capitalist system.
Governments have saddled themselves with ideological systems which seem to have prevented them doing their duty in this respect. One can only imagine that the priviledged individuals in the establishment; political and media, have vested interests in NOT doing that. Perhaps holding shares in those companies and similar ones. This is to the detriment of the economy as a whole, which has seen massive rises in homelessness, joblessness, and inequality, together with loss of working and educational rights and social protections during a period of unparalleled growth of riches, since the inception of the neoliberal project.
Whilst new tech has provided growth, inequities have been allowed to thrive, rather than the benefits of being shared to the people that have enabled this to happen.

Skip wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 6:17 am Of course.
But since money and power invariably corrupt government, government does that job in inverse proportion to its corruption.
Thus, you can measure the degree to which a government is corrupt by the disparity of its citizens' standard of living.

It does not have to be this way.

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 7:33 pm individuals are never equal

-Imp

Not relevant to the discussion

[quote=Impenitent post_id=484754 time=1607943145 user_id=3944]
[quote=Advocate post_id=484703 time=1607898064 user_id=15238]
[quote=Impenitent post_id=484701 time=1607897454 user_id=3944]


government is not created to ensure sufficiency

promises of sufficiency are simple plays to human greed... be a good citizen and we'll give you utopia...

revolution is closer than we dream

-Imp
[/quote]

Sufficiency and greed are polar opposites.
[/quote]

no, sufficiency and excess are polar opposites- greed underlies both

gimmie gimmie gimmie utopia

-Imp
[/quote]

Sufficiency is having enough, greed is wanting more than enough. Same scale, opposite ends. Nobody wants less than enough.

[quote=Sculptor post_id=484760 time=1607945217 user_id=17400]
[quote=Advocate post_id=484478 time=1607791497 user_id=15238]
(aka leveling the playing field)

Because money and power inherently perpetuate themselves without regard for the distinction between merit and opportunity, price and value, it is a primary function of government to ensure equality of sufficiency and equality of opportunity in particular. To the extent that is impossible, redistribution is necessary.
[/quote]

Sadly this is a function of governement sadly neglected, worst, vilified.

Mr Amazon, Mr Microsoft, Mr Apple, and Mr Paypal are not individuals that are smart enough to deserve the rewards they now have. Whilst nurses and other low paid workers are now dependant on food banks, no one is worth their obscene wealth until poverty is redressed. They are people who were in the right place at the right time. Their massive success is due wholly to the pre-existing infrastructure of society in material, resources, and people educated enough to employ their services. They ought to be responsible to put back hard cash to maintain and grow the infrastructure upon which they depend, and to redress the inbalances that are the result of the capitalist system.
Governments have saddled themselves with ideological systems which seem to have prevented them doing their duty in this respect. One can only imagine that the priviledged individuals in the establishment; political and media, have vested interests in NOT doing that. Perhaps holding shares in those companies and similar ones. This is to the detriment of the economy as a whole, which has seen massive rises in homelessness, joblessness, and inequality, together with loss of working and educational rights and social protections during a period of unparalleled growth of riches, since the inception of the neoliberal project.
Whilst new tech has provided growth, inequities have been allowed to thrive, rather than the benefits of being shared to the people that have enabled this to happen.
[/quote]

Someone making the average amount of money in 1978 would be able to buy an average house by saving all their money for 4 years. Wages have been stagnant since, when accounting for inflation, but today it would take 45 years.

Impenitent wrote: ↑Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:10 pm government is not created to ensure sufficiency

What is it created for? I would like a serious answer.

promises of sufficiency are simple plays to human greed...

The word sufficient seems alien to you. It's certainly an alien concept to millions of Americans, who produce mountains of surfeit for their overlords, and never have enough trickle down to them. The desire for a warm home, a safe environment, a chance to learn, a reliable source of food is not greed; it is the nature of all living things. The desire to take a thousand times one's share of a community's resources is greed.

be a good citizen and we'll give you utopia...

Who said this? In what context of 'good citizenship'?

revolution is closer than we dream

No, it isn't close at all. But the strumpite camo-shirts might yet precipitate an armed show-down of some kind.
It won't change anything.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:27 pm It does not have to be this way.

It does as long as Predatory Capital is worshipped as an aspect of God.

Skip wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 8:16 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Dec 14, 2020 12:27 pm It does not have to be this way.

It does as long as Predatory Capital is worshipped as an aspect of God.

Exactly - ot does not have to be this way.