Philosophy Now Forum

Siobhan Lyons discovers that free will doesn’t come for free.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/141/Do_We_Want_To_Be_Free

Sören was posh. Those guys grow up with choices galore. I know since i made the class journey. My kids, and all in the neighborhood struggle with those choices. Where I came from, stuff was more deterministic. They lament those choices, the indecisions, but I bloody hell would have loved to have those choices too. Then, whether you jump because of free will or not, who cares?

Ansiktsburk wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 6:59 am Sören was posh. Those guys grow up with choices galore. I know since i made the class journey. My kids, and all in the neighborhood struggle with those choices. Where I came from, stuff was more deterministic. They lament those choices, the indecisions, but I bloody hell would have loved to have those choices too. Then, whether you jump because of free will or not, who cares?

pogo stick manufacturers

-Imp

A situation with more than one option would be the equivalent of what happens at the sub-atomic level with Schrodinger's cat, an outcome indeterminate until a choice is made, which corresponds to what is experienced in life. Blanket determinism would have nothing indeterminate, either in choice or outcome.

The statement "subservient to the whims of other people and of the universe" is not the case as the universe does not have whims at the atomic level, as the statement "every atom confirms to precise mathematics" indicates.

"But a world defined through free will presents us with precisely too much responsibility." There is responsibility in freedom to correspond or not correspond to the laws of nature or ethics, not corresponding has limited rewards. Epigenetics has not yet decided what overrides physical determinism, mental choice may be a factor.

Some people want to be free, whilst others prefer to be institutionalised.
But one thing is for sure, they are all determined to be that way, come what may.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:59 pm Some people want to be free, whilst others prefer to be institutionalised.
But one thing is for sure, they are all determined to be that way, come what may.

Be what way?

Ansiktsburk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:06 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:59 pm Some people want to be free, whilst others prefer to be institutionalised.
But one thing is for sure, they are all determined to be that way, come what may.

Be what way?

The way they are determined to be, of course.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:19 pm

Ansiktsburk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:06 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Wed Dec 02, 2020 6:59 pm Some people want to be free, whilst others prefer to be institutionalised.
But one thing is for sure, they are all determined to be that way, come what may.

Be what way?

The way they are determined to be, of course.

Dead?

Philosophy Now wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:48 am Siobhan Lyons discovers that free will doesn’t come for free.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/141/Do ... To_Be_Free

Actually, I think this question has been answered. I can't find the source, but as I recall studies have shown that people have a strong preference for freedom. There is one exception, when they feel that they aren't qualified to make a good decision. Even then, they would prefer to gain the knowledge to make a good decision.

For example, I prefer to make a decision about my health. If I don't understand, I prefer to understand. If I feel I can't understand, I prefer that the doctor make the decision for me.

Philosophy Now wrote: ↑Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:48 am Siobhan Lyons discovers that free will doesn’t come for free.

https://philosophynow.org/issues/141/Do ... To_Be_Free

What I find somewhat hilarious about this article is how irrational it is. Once needs to carefully define free will but, that being said, either we have it or we don't... what we "want" is somewhat besides the point.

Ansiktsburk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:25 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:19 pm

Ansiktsburk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:06 pm
Be what way?

The way they are determined to be, of course.

Dead?

Only eventually

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:25 am

Ansiktsburk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:25 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:19 pm

The way they are determined to be, of course.

Dead?

Only eventually

mmm, atheist wisdom right there.

Dr Siobhan Lyons wrote:The question of whether the future is predetermined or whether we are active agents occupies the minds of philosophers, insomniacs, bank tellers, robbers, nurses and perhaps dolphins, and it remains uncertain whether or not we have any choice in thinking of such things

I am certain the question of free will v determinism does not occupy most of those minds, but certainly, those minds are subjected to it - which ever it is, the former or the latter.

Dr Siobhan Lyons wrote:While many philosophers are anxious about the moral consequences of a deterministic universe, freedom itself reveals to us the horrific possibility of choosing poorly rather than wisely. In a deterministic world, responsibility is a moot point.

Either free will exists (at least for humans) or the past 23yrs where God has been kicking me in the head, apparently for my indiscretions makes him more of a **** than I previously thought. Don't think the dude would have bothered making 10 commandments up for a predetermined universe.

This God:- https://www.androcies.com/galleryscroll.php

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:56 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:25 am

Ansiktsburk wrote: ↑Fri Dec 04, 2020 11:25 pm
Dead?

Only eventually

mmm, atheist wisdom right there.

Wisdom it is. You should try it sometime. Ha

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 8:44 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Mon Dec 21, 2020 6:56 pm

Sculptor wrote: ↑Sat Dec 05, 2020 11:25 am

Only eventually

mmm, atheist wisdom right there.

Wisdom it is. You should try it sometime. Ha

wopsim - wisdom upside down.