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solving racism
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:41 pm
by Advocate
There are three reasons you might believe being racist is the correct world-view.
a) You trust that racist people around you to have your best interest in mind.
b) You believe even if racism is bad, there is some other reason to be racist that is more important.
c) Your own experience shows you that racism is necessary.
Each of these can be addressed in a certain epistemological way.
Re: solving racism
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:06 pm
by Skepdick
Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:41 pm
There are three reasons you might believe being racist is the correct world-view.
a) You trust that racist people around you to have your best interest in mind.
b) You believe even if racism is bad, there is some other reason to be racist that is more important.
c) Your own experience shows you that racism is necessary.
Each of these can be addressed in a certain epistemological way.
I've never met a racist who self-identified as one, let alone consciously adopt it as a "world view".
Racists always have some other dominant narrative for justifying their behavior and beliefs: "White supremacy is scientific fact. Haven't you read the Bell Curve? Why do you hate truth?"
Just about the entirety of the problem is trying to explain to a racist why other people label them as such and how their behaviour is harmful to others in various, subtle socially-relevant ways.
"Racist" is a bad word, right? But I am not a bad person, so why are you calling me bad names? Is like convincing a child why they should stop stealing the delicious candy. At some point you figure out the carrot doesn't work so you resort to the stick.
Re: solving racism
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:41 pm
by vegetariantaxidermy
Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:06 pm
Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:41 pm
There are three reasons you might believe being racist is the correct world-view.
a) You trust that racist people around you to have your best interest in mind.
b) You believe even if racism is bad, there is some other reason to be racist that is more important.
c) Your own experience shows you that racism is necessary.
Each of these can be addressed in a certain epistemological way.
I've never met a racist who self-identified as one, let alone consciously adopt it as a "world view".
Racists always have some other dominant narrative for justifying their behavior and beliefs: "White supremacy is scientific fact. Haven't you read the Bell Curve? Why do you hate truth?"
Just about the entirety of the problem is trying to explain to a racist why other people label them as such and how their behaviour is harmful to others in various, subtle socially-relevant ways.
"Racist" is a bad word, right? But I am not a bad person, so why are you calling me bad names? Is like convincing a child why they should stop stealing the delicious candy. At some point you figure out the carrot doesn't work so you resort to the stick.
Perhaps there wouldn't be this problem if the word wasn't so abused and misused by self-righteous, holier-than-thou, judgemental and intolerant wokie f'wits.
So, once and for all, define 'racism' for the rest of us who need your guidance and superior ability to 'think' in a correct way.
ps, From what I've observed, racists are more than happy to refer to themselves as such.
Which leads one to the conclusion that those who 'deny' being one and get genuinely offended might JUST NOT BE THAT WAY INCLINED, despite what your vastly superior detection skills lead you to deduce?
A mirror would be a good place to start looking.
Re: solving racism
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:44 pm
by Skepdick
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:41 pm
So, one and for all, define 'racism' for the rest of us who need your guidance and superior ability to 'think' in a correct way.
Part and parcel is the problem of people who can only think in words and definitions.
Logocentrism is a fucking plague.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logocentrism
Re: solving racism
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:46 pm
by vegetariantaxidermy
Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:44 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:41 pm
So, one and for all, define 'racism' for the rest of us who need your guidance and superior ability to 'think' in a correct way.
Part and parcel is the problem of people who can only think in words and definitions.
Logocentrism is a fucking plague.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logocentrism
There's always a handy buzzword and insult for the devoutly woke. Always so much safer than a direct answer or counterarguent. Oh the irony
Re: solving racism
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:50 pm
by Skepdick
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:46 pm
There's always a handy buzzword and insult for the devoutly woke. Oh the irony
Q.E.D
It's not an insult.
It's me trying to share with you my perspective on how I perceive you. It's an exercise in gaining a 3rd person perspective of your self. But because you think you are being "attacked' and called "bad names" you've already defaulted to defence-by-attack.
What's the word? Triggered!
Re: solving racism
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:54 pm
by vegetariantaxidermy
Skepdick wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:50 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:46 pm
There's always a handy buzzword and insult for the devoutly woke. Oh the irony
Q.E.D
It's not an insult.
It's me trying to share with you my perspective on how I perceive you. It's an exercise in gaining an objective (3rd person) view on your self (because you are stuck in your own head). But because you think you are being "attacked' and called "bad names" you've already defaulted to defence-by-attacking.
What's the word? Triggered!
I saw nothing but a link and a buzzword. Perhaps I need glasses?
As for your comment here--you clearly spend too much time on social media.
Re: solving racism
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:57 pm
by Skepdick
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:54 pm
I saw nothing but a link and a buzzword. Perhaps I need glasses?
You might also need reading comprehension, and the ability to adopt new perspectives.
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 7:54 pm
As for your comment here--you clearly spend too much time on social media.
Well, if you are spending "too much time" interacting with actual humans - it's not showing.
Re: solving racism
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:01 pm
by vegetariantaxidermy
I always knew the devoutly woke were simply bog-standard idiots. Only idiots need trendy buzzwords and 'psychobabble' phrases to 'communicate'.
You know I'm right.
Re: solving racism
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:12 pm
by Skepdick
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:01 pm
I always knew the devoutly woke were simply bog-standard idiots. Only idiots need trendy buzzwords and 'psychobabble' phrases to 'communicate'.
You know I'm right.
Right you are.
Perhaps the words "bad veg!" and a rolled up newspaper are sufficient for communicating with you?
Re: solving racism
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:30 pm
by FlashDangerpants
Advocate wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 6:41 pm
You trust that racist people around you to have your best interest in mind.
...
Each of these can be addressed in a certain epistemological way.
What is the epistemological demonstration that racists who view you as a member of their own team and worthy therefore of respect and protection denied to others don't have your best interest in mind - at least in so far as they understand your interests, which is what is in their mind?
I can't immediately see a non circular option there given that the overall stated objective is to show that racism is wrong, so we can't just use racism being wrong as part of this bit.
Re: solving racism
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:30 pm
by Advocate
[quote=vegetariantaxidermy post_id=478409 time=1604430067 user_id=8006]
I always knew the devoutly woke were simply bog-standard idiots. Only idiots need trendy buzzwords and 'psychobabble' phrases to 'communicate'.
You know I'm right.
[/quote]
To be fair, those on The Spectrum (autism) literally need such literality, sometimes.
Re: solving racism
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:33 pm
by Advocate
>What is the epistemological demonstration that racists who view you as a member of their own team and worthy therefore of respect and protection denied to others don't have your best interest in mind - at least in so far as they understand your interests, which is what is in their mind?
Your best interests include at least in some sense, the good of the universe. Your best interests include an accounting of all the levels of interests, including living in a peaceful world on a sustainable planet. If they have a misunderstanding about what's in your best interest, then that's an additional problem that has it's own characteristics.
Re: solving racism
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:34 pm
by vegetariantaxidermy
Rather pointless to continually use a word that has been used and abused to the point of extinction without defining what you mean when you use it.
I do realise that yanks believe word meanings are entirely subjective and change to accommodate political leaning
Re: solving racism
Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:39 pm
by Skepdick
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Tue Nov 03, 2020 8:34 pm
Rather pointless to continually use a word that has been used and abused to the point of extinction without defining what you mean when you use it.
I do realise that yanks believe word meanings are entirely subjective and change to accommodate political leaning
Any time you treat people differently because of their X you are an X-ist.
If X is "sex" then you are a sexist.
If X is "age" then you are an ageist.
If X is "race" then you are a racist.
If X is "class" then you are a classist.
You don't hire old people? Ageist!
You don't do business with poor people? Classist!
You don't respect women with authority? Sexist!
You don't date black people? Racist!
Some of the above "isms" are harmful when they become widely-accepted social or cultural norms to the detriment of a particular group.