Philosophy Now Forum

Asking how the brain is capable of creating the experience of consciousness is not materially different from asking how the tongue produces saltiness. The pattern of nerve firings IS the thing that's being referenced, not a separate entity made of separate stuff.

Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:27 pm Asking how the brain is capable of creating the experience of consciousness is not materially different from asking how the tongue produces saltiness. The pattern of nerve firings IS the thing that's being referenced, not a separate entity made of separate stuff.

Ah. This must be just another of your "throwing it out there" posts -- provokers, rather than claims.

It cannot possibly be something expected to be believed.

[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=476784 time=1603553478 user_id=9431]
[quote=Advocate post_id=476783 time=1603553244 user_id=15238]
Asking how the brain is capable of creating the experience of consciousness is not materially different from asking how the tongue produces saltiness. The pattern of nerve firings IS the thing that's being referenced, not a separate entity made of separate stuff.
[/quote]

Ah. This must be just another of your "throwing it out there" posts -- provokers, rather than claims.

It cannot possibly be something expected to be believed.
[/quote]

Would you care to point out a specific way in which the contention is incorrect?

A side note: there's a button at the top right hand corner of each post, that has a " mark on it. It quotes the last person, and alerts them to the fact that you have posted something. You should use that.

Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:36 pm Would you care to point out a specific way in which the contention is incorrect?

Not really.

I would just point you to all the literature on that subject, so that you could make a new statement that shows even a modicum of awareness of the issue. It's certainly not "easy," and it's certainly not dismissible in the way you suggest. But that would be discernible from even the first reading of any of the literature.

[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=476792 time=1603554569 user_id=9431]
A side note: there's a button at the top right hand corner of each post, that has a " mark on it. It quotes the last person, and alerts them to the fact that you have posted something. You should use that.

[quote=Advocate post_id=476786 time=1603553781 user_id=15238]
Would you care to point out a specific way in which the contention is incorrect?
[/quote]
Not really.

I would just point you to all the literature on that subject, so that you could make a new statement that shows even a modicum of awareness of the issue. It's certainly not "easy," and it's certainly not dismissible in the way you suggest. But that would be discernible from even the first reading of any of the literature.
[/quote]

I'm confused as to how you believe you're "doing philosophy" here.

Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:10 pm I'm confused as to how you believe you're "doing philosophy" here.

I'm pointing you to the philosophical literature. You may have noticed that PN is philosophical literature.

Am I talking to a child here?

[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=476800 time=1603556627 user_id=9431]
[quote=Advocate post_id=476797 time=1603555813 user_id=15238]
I'm confused as to how you believe you're "doing philosophy" here.
[/quote]
I'm pointing you to the philosophical literature. You may have noticed that PN is philosophical literature.

Am I talking to a child here? :shock:
[/quote]

Once again, you'll talk about anything but the point. I'm not here to get lessons from you. I know more than you.

Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 4:27 pm Asking how the brain is capable of creating the experience of consciousness is not materially different from asking how the tongue produces saltiness. The pattern of nerve firings IS the thing that's being referenced, not a separate entity made of separate stuff.

Very good point.

Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:27 pm Once again, you'll talk about anything but the point. I'm not here to get lessons from you. I know more than you.

Heh. You think you know more than I do. Excellent.

As Clint Eastwood used to say, "Go ahead; make my day."

Tell me what you know about the views that criticize Materialism.

[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=476804 time=1603558468 user_id=9431]
[quote=Advocate post_id=476801 time=1603556836 user_id=15238]
Once again, you'll talk about anything but the point. I'm not here to get lessons from you. I know more than you.
[/quote]
Heh. :D You think you know more than I do. Excellent.

As Clint Eastwood used to say, "Go ahead; make my day." :D

Tell me what you know about the views that criticize Materialism.
[/quote]

I am not a historian. I am a philosopher. I am interested in the ideas, not the debates.

Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:11 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 5:54 pm Tell me what you know about the views that criticize Materialism.

I am not a historian. I am a philosopher. I am interested in the ideas, not the debates.

So...I'm talking to somebody who thinks that the mind-brain problem is "easy," and that "It's like the tongue" does the trick.

And the same person says he/she knows more than me about it.

Well, I don't know quite what to say, except "Read something." Practically anything will do, actually. Anybody who takes the problem seriously at all.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:24 pm So...I'm talking to somebody who thinks that the mind-brain problem is "easy," and that "It's like the tongue" does the trick.

And the same person says he/she knows more than me about it.

Well, I don't know quite what to say, except "Read something." Practically anything will do, actually. Anybody who takes the problem seriously at all.

But Mr Can't, to put the shoe on the other foot (and paraphrase your recent objections on a different matter).... do you have any evidence to suggest that there is even a problem such as the one you claim exists?

[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=476817 time=1603560292 user_id=9431]
[quote=Advocate post_id=476813 time=1603559518 user_id=15238]
[quote="Immanuel Can" post_id=476804 time=1603558468 user_id=9431]
Tell me what you know about the views that criticize Materialism.
[/quote]
I am not a historian. I am a philosopher. I am interested in the ideas, not the debates.
[/quote]
So...I'm talking to somebody who thinks that the mind-brain problem is "easy," and that "It's like the tongue" does the trick.

And the same person says he/she knows more than me about it.

Well, I don't know quite what to say, except "Read something." Practically anything will do, actually. Anybody who takes the problem seriously at all.
[/quote]

It's easily understood because it's commonly misunderstood. Answers in philosophy are a framework for understanding. If you'd like to give a particular version of materialism i'll be happy to show why and how it's right or wrong. Here's my current library if you want some idea of just where my ideas come from: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... 6y_pfCpYg/ I assure you, it's sufficient.

Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:47 pm I assure you, it's sufficient.

You can't possibly be a philosopher.

The distinguishing quality of all philosophical arguments is the insufficiency of any and all evidence.

Double down on any position to the death!

Advocate wrote: ↑Sat Oct 24, 2020 6:47 pm It's easily understood because it's commonly misunderstood.

Well, it is by some, apparently.

Let me recommend you read something on, say, downward causality or emergentism, then get back to me.