Philosophy Now Forum

Moral-facts-deniers [like Peter Holmes, Sculptor, PantFlasher, and the likes] deny moral facts exist because they assumed moral facts are the same as the typical facts of external objects and external states-of-affairs.

But what they are ignorant of the facts of states-of-affairs that are going on inside their own brain and the brains of the 7+ billion of humans at present.

Morality is not about looking for facts outside one brain.
Morality and Ethics is about doing good which is avoiding what is evil [moral nor religious sense]
Morality and moral facts are confined to the mental states of the individuals, thus;

• P1 All mental states are facts
  P2 All moral states are mental states
  C1 All moral states are facts, i.e. moral facts.

From the above, moral facts exist.

Thus the moral fact 'all humans ought-not to kill another' is a mental state within each human being.

DNA/RNA wise all humans are "programmed" with the mental states of the potential to kill so as to enable them to kill animals for food and in self-defense. But such a potential is double-edged as it could possibly facilitate the killing of all humans.

As such all humans are also "programmed" with an inherent inhibitory mental states of ought-not to kill [unless necessary] within a moral faculty, framework and system.

All moral facts are reducible to non-moral properties. All moral facts are reducible and represented by various neural algorithms within the brain of all humans as evident in the brains of the 7+ billion of humans in the present and of those in the past.

Therefore moral facts exist.
This is indisputable.

Views?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:34 am

• P1 All mental states are facts
  P2 All moral states are mental states
  C1 All moral states are facts, i.e. moral facts.

From the above, moral facts exist.

• P1 All mental states are facts
  P2 All IMAGINARY ANIMALS are mental states
  C1 All IMAGINARY ANIMALS are facts, i.e. UNICORN facts.

From the above, UNICORNS exist.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
PI All mental states are facts
P2 All moral states are mental states
CI All moral states are facts i e moral facts

All mental states are facts because they exist but what those mental states actually contain within them may not be facts
Mental states are limited by imagination not by knowledge so anything outside of knowledge cannot be known to be true
Also two people can have completely contradictory mental states or moral states so at least one of them has to be false

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:19 pm P2 All IMAGINARY ANIMALS are mental states
C1 All IMAGINARY ANIMALS are facts, i.e. UNICORN facts.[/list]
From the above, UNICORNS exist.

P2 ALL ABSTRACTIONS are mental states.
C1 ALL ABSTRACTIONS are facts, i.e 2+2 = 4 is a fact

So, if your argument was supposed to lead to absurdity you ought to reject unicorns together with mathematics.

Abstract ideas lead to concrete action e.g they have detectable consequences. So they exist.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:52 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:19 pm P2 All IMAGINARY ANIMALS are mental states
C1 All IMAGINARY ANIMALS are facts, i.e. UNICORN facts.[/list]
From the above, UNICORNS exist.

P2 ALL ABSTRACTIONS are mental states.
C1 ALL ABSTRACTIONS are facts, i.e 2+2 = 4 is a fact

So, if your argument was supposed to lead to absurdity you ought to reject unicorns together with mathematics.

Abstract ideas lead to concrete action e.g they have detectable consequences. So they exist.

Yes, now you get it. You have demonstrated the shitness of the argument by taking it to the absurd conclusion that 4 sided triangles are facts as well as 2+2 equalling four.
Well done.

See kids, don't be discouraged just because your bullshit argument got shot down the first 136 times. Just reword it again, create one more topic, and success is guaranteed!

Atla wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:15 pm See kids, don't be discouraged just because your bullshit argument got shot down the first 136 times. Just reword it again, create one more topic, and success is guaranteed!

Winners don't learn from mistakes!!!!

Skepdick wrote:
Abstract ideas lead to concrete action

Only if they are true as an abstract idea that is false cannot lead to concrete action [ less you class falsification as a concrete action ]
Also some abstract ideas are so abstract that concrete action is not actually possible and so only some of them can lead to such action

fact is a four letter f word

fact

-Imp

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:34 am Moral-facts-deniers [like Peter Holmes, Sculptor, PantFlasher, and the likes] deny moral facts exist because they assumed moral facts are the same as the typical facts of external objects and external states-of-affairs.

Fact: Julius Caesar was assassinated on the Ides of March 44BC
Fact: Julius Caesar was assassinated on the Ides of March 44bce
Fact: Julius Caesar was ruthlessly murdered by a small cabal of self serving republican conspirators on the Ides of March 44BC
Fact: Julius Caesar was murdered on the Ides of March 44BC
Fact: The tyrant Julius Caesar was killed, freeing the Roman state from tyranny on the Ides of March 44BC
Fact: Julius Caesar was euthanased on the Ides of March 44BC
Fact: Nothing noteworthy ever happened in the Ides of March 44 bce.
Fact: Some rich aristocrat was thankfully put out of our misery on the Ides of March 44BC

All true.
No one is denying facts.
Take your pick.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:34 am

• P1 All mental states are facts

Delusions are mental states. Therefore delusions are facts.

P2 All moral states are mental states
C1 All moral states are facts, i.e. moral facts.[/list]
From the above, moral facts exist.

But only in your head.

T..
Views?

Facts do not objectively exist.

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2020/09/03/w ... EFOp77uATo

Sculptor wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:09 pm Facts do not objectively exist.

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2020/09/03/w ... EFOp77uATo

Actually, what this is saying is that there is only one objective fact that exists; that no facts exist. The author is stating that "no facts exist" as an objective statement of fact.

This is what is known in philosophy as "non-sense" or cognitive disintegration.

Veritas,

In order to approach this you need to first:

Define what a fact is,
Define what morality is,
Then argument whether or not there are moral facts.

I don't think you've defined what you mean by "moral".

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:07 pm Yes, now you get it. You have demonstrated the shitness of the argument by taking it to the absurd conclusion that 4 sided triangles are facts as well as 2+2 equalling four.
Well done.

Except that 4 sided triangle is not even an abstract idea. It's a semantic shitcake.

You can construct the words, not the imagination.