Philosophy Now Forum

Can anyone explain why Kant's Noumenon is considered timeless and spaceless? We can debate later if the Noumenon is real or not.

phenomena occur in time and space... the noumenon cannot be known

-Imp

But why is it timeless? Just because one does not know something does not mean it is timeless.

Your answer is like answering the question, " Why does the earth go around the sun ?" with " it goes around the sun because it is a planet that goes around the sun." I know the definitions of neumenon and phenomenon. I am asking why is the neumenon timeless not for the definition of neumenon.

Suppose I do not know that Waterloo occurred in 1815, does that mean that Waterloo is timeless and never occurred in 1815 or any other time?

raw_thought wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:37 pm Can anyone explain why Kant's Noumenon is considered timeless and spaceless? We can debate later if the Noumenon is real or not.

The only thing I can think of is that the noumenon is universal and therefore transcends time and space, a bit like Plato's Forms.

raw_thought wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:34 pm Your answer is like answering the question, " Why does the earth go around the sun ?" with " it goes around the sun because it is a planet that goes around the sun." I know the definitions of neumenon and phenomenon. I am asking why is the neumenon timeless not for the definition of neumenon.

kant says it cannot be known

if it were a phenomenon, it (the impression of it) would occur in time and space...

noumenon leave no impression

waterloo was recorded in 1973

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85yMOPKR94M

-Imp

Yes! I know the definition of neumenon! I am not asking for its definition. I am asking why is it considered timeless.

Your answer is, it is timeless because it is timeless. Not what I am after.

You wrote, "kant says it cannot be known if it were a phenomenon, it (the impression of it) would occur in time and space...
ME; Yes I know that.
You wrote; noumenon leave no impression
ME, OK I agree. So anything that is not experienced is eternal and timeless?
You wrote, "waterloo was recorded in 1973" I just got the joke , I am talking about the battle. But sure the analogy still works with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj_9CiNkkn4 So if Abba had never recorded their song it would not have been written in 1973?
Me: So if Waterloo was never written down as happening in 1815, it did not happen in 1815 and was in some eternal timeless world like Plato's forms?

BTW My fiancé loves that tune!

I'm more of a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jShMQw2H2cM kind of guy!

the talking heads should never go on a cruise

anything that is not experienced cannot be known... (whether or not anything that is experienced can be known is another question)

ever seen Bill and Ted's excellent adventure?

-Imp

I am not asking if the neumenon can be known. I am asking why did Kant and others think it is timeless? Actually that seems to be knowing something about it ( that it is timeless ).

raw_thought wrote: Can anyone explain why Kant's Noumenon is considered timeless and spaceless? We can debate later if the Noumenon is real or not.

The only thing I can think of is that the noumenon is universal and therefore transcends time and space, a bit like Plato's Forms.