Philosophy Now Forum

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:22 pm By that logic then parents have absolutely no moral responsibility to their children but themselves and absolutely no one else

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:22 pm Yet all loving parents unconditionally love their children and so would if necessary willingly sacrifice their own lives for them ...

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 2:22 pm And so your argument fails to acknowledge the existence of unconditional love as a consequence of the propagation of genes.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:42 pm If you did not exist, nothing would matter.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:30 pm

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:42 pm If you did not exist, nothing would matter.

I would clarify that if I did not exist, it might be the case that nothing would matter to me (depending upon whether there is an afterlife or something along those lines or whatever). However, things might conceivably still matter to others who do exist. I'm, of course, assuming that other people exist independently of me--which seems like a reasonable assumption to me.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:42 pm If you did not exist, nothing would matter.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:42 pm If you fail to live your life successfully, you have lost all there is worth having.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:49 pm

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:42 pm If you did not exist, nothing would matter.

If this were true for every person, then it would mean that the death of anyone would entail that nothing further would matter for anyone. That's obviously not the case, as the world continues long after people pass off it. And if something mattered once, to one person, it surely still matters in the same way to others, does it not?

So what can you mean by that?

The words "your," and "you," refer to any individual. If there is no, "you," (no individual) for things to matter to, nothing matters, and for each individual, it is their own life to which things matter.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:34 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:30 pm

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:42 pm If you did not exist, nothing would matter.

I would clarify that if I did not exist, it might be the case that nothing would matter to me (depending upon whether there is an afterlife or something along those lines or whatever). However, things might conceivably still matter to others who do exist. I'm, of course, assuming that other people exist independently of me--which seems like a reasonable assumption to me.

The words "your," and "you," refer to any individual. If there is no, "you," (no individual) for things to matter to, nothing matters, and for each individual, it is their own life to which things matter.

"Afterlife." is an oxymoron. There is already a word for what is after life; it's called death. What people mean by, "afterlife," is not something after life, but some mystical alternate version of life. There is no such thing, but if there were, the principle would remain the same, whatever kind of life you have or where you have it, it is your life to which anything matters, because if you weren't alive in some way, nothing would matter.

If something is of no value to you, if it in no way can lead to the furtherance of your own life, no matter how many others might value it, it is not a value to you.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:52 pm

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:42 pm If you fail to live your life successfully, you have lost all there is worth having.

This reminds me of Jesus Christ's injunction: "What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his own soul?" Worldly "success," if it means no more than pleasing myself, is paltry gains, and really nothing by comparison.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:11 pm So for example, I may become a billionaire, thoughtlessly polluting the world so that when I'm gone the world becomes less livable for people who follow. My life was great because I was a billionaire and the world was fine while I was alive, however, I left the world in worse shape than when I started and later generations suffer the consequence, however, if it only matters when I am alive, what does it matter to me what I left to following generations?

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 1:42 pm If you did not exist, nothing would matter.

You are given life and the means to preserve and maintain it, but survival is not given. It is the same for all living organisms. Life is given with the means to living, but an organism must sustain its own life by its own action and behavior.

For all organisms the issue is always, "to be or not to be," but unlike all other organisms, you must discover or learn how live and choose to do it.

If you fail to live your life successfully, you have lost all there is worth having.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:33 pm

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:11 pm So for example, I may become a billionaire, thoughtlessly polluting the world so that when I'm gone the world becomes less livable for people who follow. My life was great because I was a billionaire and the world was fine while I was alive, however, I left the world in worse shape than when I started and later generations suffer the consequence, however, if it only matters when I am alive, what does it matter to me what I left to following generations?

If you actually believe living as your hypothetical billionaire lived is living successully as a human being, that's your view of human values, not mine.

First of all, no one becomes a billionaire by, "thoughtlessly," doing anything, unless they are a crook, a gangster, or a politician, and they are not living successful human lives but the lives of parasites and predators. (Could you enjoy their kind of life?) Secondly, everything has a cost and a consequence. It is not possible to produce great wealth that benefits millions of people without any disruption of any kind to some things some people who have never produced a thing of value for themselves or anyone else happen to dislike.

Anyone who believes that their own life can benefit from what harms the life of any other human being has a problem with their own values. If that is what you believe, you need to examine your values. If it is not what you believe, what is your question? How can you object to every individual pursuing their own life and values if that cannot possibly harm others and will almost surely benefit them?

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:59 pm

So what can you mean by that?

Just what I said to Gary:

The words "your," and "you," refer to any individual. If there is no, "you," (no individual) for things to matter to, nothing matters, and for each individual, it is their own life to which things matter.

RCSaunders wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:15 pm If you live in the way you believe you are supposed to live, are you displeased? Does it displease you to obey God? Are you not pleased to serve Him? Do you regard whatever you do in obedience to God as a, "paltry gain?"

Before you denigrate one's success as, "paltry gains," shouldn't you first know what one means by success?