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a life/exp around Socrates not knowing?

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:25 am
by NEW
Hi all,

I have, perhaps a story to tell, around Socrates saying that the only true wisdom lies within knowing nothing.

For many years now, I have been trying to undermine this saying.
And trust me, when I aim for something I usually do not miss, cause I'm usually good at this.

So every day I found myself refreshed, up to the task ...and every night, I ended up with nothing (when you are really true to yourself),
hence my saying, "every night I end up having a drink and discussion with him instead".

You failed your target now? I hear you think, perhaps ...but that is all except the case,

since I wander around, dive into every fragmented solution (that is therefore never really complete trough it's fractal tendencies) and extract some possible things out of every endeavor ...like a good espresso :wink:

for something that really keeps sticking,

So,

after a while I started to wander around this as some sort of fundament, base,
and other aspects, and in the back of my mind the question kept ringing louder and louder:
why isn't life based more upon this principle that life is a mystery on itself?
and the other, although the same in shape, also different, and by accepting that, encourage each other towards self exploration and development, and enrichment of each other?
I have been exploring this factor for a bit,
with an UBI frame as a somewhat stable element/resting ground, and trough this, exploring uncertainty factors as much as possible.

And what can I say, if anything, (cause I'm most of the time speechless) it's like an opening of a flower, filled with nectar, and transformation you never knew was possible to experience at times (but empirically registered fortunately).

The tragedy/downside of this, partly since this is a personal/micro experiment, based partly on an alt therapy also,
you also find your vessel disappear more and more away from the conditioned dualistic competition main field/frame and false certainties, and more importantly, the very people you are trying to help.
With the result also (at times), that to others, it's like you are speaking a new, and complete different language that others no longer can understand. It sometimes even manifests disturbing automated self defense mechanisms with others, and of course, frustration with me.

I can only describe this best with Plato's allegory of the cave really: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69F7GhASOdM

Isn't it absurd? You look and find possible answers, and by the time you get there, no one wants to hear about it cause it drives ppl nuts ... :|

Re: a life/exp around Socrates not knowing?

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 12:16 pm
by Arising_uk
What's a 'UBI frame'?

Other than that you appear to just be rambling, do you have a point to make?

Re: a life/exp around Socrates not knowing?

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:57 pm
by NEW
hmm, very interesting ...

Rambling ...could you please elaborate a bit on that?

Is it perhaps a bit like this: https://youtu.be/69F7GhASOdM?t=109 ?

Then it means that I have arrived and you made my point!! :lol:
you have my sencere gratitude :lol:
...

all kidding aside; I repeat my question:

why isn't life based more upon:
/this principle that life is a mystery on itself?
/uncertainty
/the not knowing
instead on false, or at least fragmented ones, and therefore incomplete (and more so, origin towards a lot of issues).

and in relation towards others, why are we maintaining to promote this dualistic competition main field/frame of being? (apart from obvious conditioning factors of course)
why do we not base this instead to encourage each other towards self exploration and development, and possible enrichment of each other's differences?

ps: UBI = universal/unconditional basic income factors

Re: a life/exp around Socrates not knowing?

Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 3:23 pm
by Impenitent
NEW wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 2:57 pm
...

all kidding aside; I repeat my question:

why isn't life based more upon:
/this principle that life is a mystery on itself?
/uncertainty
/the not knowing
instead on false, or at least fragmented ones, and therefore incomplete (and more so, origin towards a lot of issues).

and in relation towards others, why are we maintaining to promote this dualistic competition main field/frame of being? (apart from obvious conditioning factors of course)
why do we not base this instead to encourage each other towards self exploration and development, and possible enrichment of each other's differences?

ps: UBI = universal/unconditional basic income factors
the simple answer is that humans are creatures of habit

-Imp

Re: a life/exp around Socrates not knowing?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:35 am
by NEW
the simple answer is that humans are creatures of habit

-Imp
yep, hence the conditioning factors I mentioned.

It's truly amazing how mankind becomes a hurdle on itself towards any attempts to actually improve things ...

even a possible win win, will most probably be thrown away, trough those very conditioning factors ...

I really have no words for it... :o
Let alone having a clue on how to handle this ... :|

Re: a life/exp around Socrates not knowing?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 1:53 am
by TheVisionofEr
NEW wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:25 am Hi all,

I have, perhaps a story to tell, around Socrates saying that the only true wisdom lies within knowing nothing.

For many years now, I have been trying to undermine this saying.
And trust me, when I aim for something I usually do not miss, cause I'm usually good at this.

So every day I found myself refreshed, up to the task ...and every night, I ended up with nothing (when you are really true to yourself),
hence my saying, "every night I end up having a drink and discussion with him instead".

You failed your target now? I hear you think, perhaps ...but that is all except the case,

since I wander around, dive into every fragmented solution (that is therefore never really complete trough it's fractal tendencies) and extract some possible things out of every endeavor ...like a good espresso :wink:

for something that really keeps sticking,

So,

after a while I started to wander around this as some sort of fundament, base,
and other aspects, and in the back of my mind the question kept ringing louder and louder:
why isn't life based more upon this principle that life is a mystery on itself?
and the other, although the same in shape, also different, and by accepting that, encourage each other towards self exploration and development, and enrichment of each other?
I have been exploring this factor for a bit,
with an UBI frame as a somewhat stable element/resting ground, and trough this, exploring uncertainty factors as much as possible.

And what can I say, if anything, (cause I'm most of the time speechless) it's like an opening of a flower, filled with nectar, and transformation you never knew was possible to experience at times (but empirically registered fortunately).

The tragedy/downside of this, partly since this is a personal/micro experiment, based partly on an alt therapy also,
you also find your vessel disappear more and more away from the conditioned dualistic competition main field/frame and false certainties, and more importantly, the very people you are trying to help.
With the result also (at times), that to others, it's like you are speaking a new, and complete different language that others no longer can understand. It sometimes even manifests disturbing automated self defense mechanisms with others, and of course, frustration with me.

I can only describe this best with Plato's allegory of the cave really: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69F7GhASOdM

Isn't it absurd? You look and find possible answers, and by the time you get there, no one wants to hear about it cause it drives ppl nuts ... :|
Well, Socrates was ironic. Meaning he felt bound to mask or dissemble his knowledge so not to offend by the fact of his superiority, a fact productive of hate or severe envy.

Re: a life/exp around Socrates not knowing?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:01 pm
by NEW
Well, Socrates was ironic. Meaning he felt bound to mask or dissemble his knowledge so not to offend by the fact of his superiority, a fact productive of hate or severe envy.
another point of possible truth ...and a tough one when in it yourself, possibly ... :cry:

Re: a life/exp around Socrates not knowing?

Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2020 6:52 pm
by TheVisionofEr
NEW wrote: Fri Apr 17, 2020 2:01 pm
Well, Socrates was ironic. Meaning he felt bound to mask or dissemble his knowledge so not to offend by the fact of his superiority, a fact productive of hate or severe envy.
another point of possible truth ...and a tough one when in it yourself, possibly ... :cry:
One should consider that the account in the Apology is a speech to a public assembly and not simply representative of Socrates' general activity. In the dialogues, Socrates' often speaks of something, eg virtue, that he has devoted considerable reflection to. One can't devote reflection to something one knows nothing about in the literal sense.