Philosophy Now Forum

After reading about some of the horror stories going on in New York and other places in the world from COVID-19 right now--people drowning in their own blood-filled lungs, medical personnel getting sick while trying to help others--it really makes me wonder what kind of "god" presides over such horror? Is there really a God at all? And if there were, would it not be a God of evil? I was once an atheist because I thought the world was too messed up to be run by a God. Later I was willing to switch to agnosticism because I thought maybe the world is not such an evil place after all. But now I see so much suffering and horror that It really makes me want to go back to being an atheist or else it makes me think God must be evil. I can't believe in a God who allows so much suffering.

In the blame-logic of such a view, without God either atheists or nobody would be to blame for abominations. Outside of the view, blame the Chinese communist government, which I hear supplants God in that culture.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:09 am Is there really a God at all?

Note,

God is an Impossibility to be Real Empirically and Philosophically,
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24704

The question of whether God exists or not is a non-starter.

Yes, at present there is a critical necessity to cling on to a God [illusory] as a psychological crutch to relieve the inherent existential crisis.
However from now onward we need to work hard to wean off the idea of God ASAP and replace theism with FOOLPROOF alternative to deal with the inherent existential crisis.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:09 am After reading about some of the horror stories going on in New York and other places in the world from COVID-19 right now--people drowning in their own blood-filled lungs, medical personnel getting sick while trying to help others--it really makes me wonder what kind of "god" presides over such horror?

The one and only One.

Is there really a God at all?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:09 am What does the word 'God' mean to you?

I find it hard to explain to people how there really is a God if people themselves do not even yet know what God is exactly.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:09 am And if there were, would it not be a God of evil?

Why do you think and ask this?

Is it only when a virus kills a very relative minute number of human beings when some people start questioning whether it is a God of evil or not?

When human beings, themselves, kill millions upon millions of other human beings do people also wonder whether there is a God of evil or not or whether people are evil?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:09 am I was once an atheist because I thought the world was too messed up to be run by a God. Later I was willing to switch to agnosticism because I thought maybe the world is not such an evil place after all. But now I see so much suffering and horror that It really makes me want to go back to being an atheist or else it makes me think God must be evil.

Explain how God 'must be' evil? Or, better still explain how God 'could even be' evil?

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:09 am I can't believe in a God who allows so much suffering.

Where exactly is the so called "suffering"?

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 8:13 am

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:09 am Is there really a God at all?

Note,

God is an Impossibility to be Real Empirically and Philosophically,
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=24704

The question of whether God exists or not is a non-starter.

Yes, at present there is a critical necessity to cling on to a God [illusory] as a psychological crutch to relieve the inherent existential crisis.
However from now onward we need to work hard to wean off the idea of God ASAP and replace theism with FOOLPROOF alternative to deal with the inherent existential crisis.

What inherent existential crisis?

And, why do you continue to have some "inherent existential crisis"?

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:19 am In the blame-logic of such a view, without God either atheists or nobody would be to blame for abominations. Outside of the view, blame the Chinese communist government, which I hear supplants God in that culture.

How could an atheist blame a 'God"? I think you are confusing atheists with ex-theists as if an atheist wished to blame someone then Chinese food hygiene practices would be a rational choice.

Age wrote: I find it hard to explain to people how there really is a God if people themselves do not even yet know what God is exactly. ...

What is it you find hard?

What exactly is 'God' then?

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:18 am

Age wrote: I find it hard to explain to people how there really is a God if people themselves do not even yet know what God is exactly. ...

What is it you find hard?

What I find hard, is explaining to people how there really could be a God if people themselves are not even prepared to consider any thing about what God could be.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:09 am What exactly is 'God' then?

To me:

God, in the visible sense, is just the Universe, Itself.

And,

God, in the non visible sense, is just the Mind, Itself.

Just before the covid-19 appeared, I remember that the so-called ''superpowers'' were flexing their muscles showing how powerful they were; they felt strong behind their nukes, stealth jet fighters, tanks, supersonic missiles, machine guns and their advanced technologies! Now as I see it, they are all being brought on their knees one after the other by something so small that the naked eyes cannot see! How useful now are the nukes, the stealth jets fighters, the supersonic missiles, the tanks, the guns and such weapons against covid-19??

Man is now collectively realizing how weak he is and is having to face the reality of the fragility his own existence.

God, the Almighty is never unjust to His servants. Man has been indulging in so much sins for a long time so much so that evil has become a common place everywhere nowadays. Moreover, many weak innocent people have been greatly oppressed by these ''super-powerful'' people for at least the last fifty years: the Palestinians, the Syrians, the Uygurs, the Iraqis, the Afghans, the Libyans, the Rohingyas, and many others.

Now, as I see it the oppressors and their supporters are feeling the heat a little bit. And now, everyone is in the same boat, and no one is safe from this! For Allah, the Almighty says in the Holy Quran:

• And fear a trial which will not strike those who have wronged among you exclusively, and know that Allah is severe in penalty. [Quran, interpretation of meaning, 8:25]

But in spite of all this evil doing which has been done by the oppressors on the oppressed, and all this sinful way of life which is now a commonplace, there is still a solution for this covid-19 trial. The solution is called repenting to God, the Almighty alone.

In the Holy Quran, God the Almighty narrates us the story of a people who also had great might but they were tyrant as well. They were the people of Aad. The prophet Hud (pbuh) was sent to the people of Aad, and he(pbuh) advised them as Allah, the All-Knowing says in the Holy Quran:

• And to 'Aad [We sent] their brother Hud. He said, "O my people, worship Allah ; you have no deity other than Him. You are not but inventors [of falsehood].
  
  O my people, I do not ask you for it any reward. My reward is only from the one who created me. Then will you not reason?
  
  And O my people, ask forgiveness of your Lord and then repent to Him. He will send [rain from] the sky upon you in showers and increase you in strength [added] to your strength. And do not turn away, [being] criminals." [Quran, interpretation of meaning: 11: 50-52]

But, the people of Aad denied the messenger and turned away from the message and then were completely destroyed.

• And when Our command came, We saved Hud and those who believed with him, by mercy from Us; and We saved them from a harsh punishment.
  
  And that was 'Aad, who rejected the signs of their Lord and disobeyed His messengers and followed the order of every obstinate tyrant.
  
  And they were [therefore] followed in this world with a curse and [as well] on the Day of Resurrection. Unquestionably, 'Aad denied their Lord; then away with 'Aad, the people of Hud. [Quran, 11: 58-60]

_______________________________________________

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:09 am After reading about some of the horror stories going on in New York and other places in the world from COVID-19 right now--people drowning in their own blood-filled lungs,

This is a horrible death indeed. I have come to know that many notorious tyrants have died similar deaths. For example, the people of Noah were drown. In the time of prophet Moses (pbuh), Pharaoh and his army were drown. In the time of prophet Abraham(pbuh), Nimrud, the tyrant king and his people were killed by mosquitoes which entered through their ears, and then their nostrils, and it would keep moving until it reached their brain; as a result, they died.

I want to meet my Lord, the Almighty in a good condition. I ask Allah, the Almighty for me, my family and all those who are turning back and repenting to Him alone to grant us a good death and not a shameful return. Ameen.


I invite all those who are reading this to embrace Islam, and to turn back to God, the Almighty and ask His forgiveness sincerely. Also, I encourage you to invite your loved ones and your surroundings in turn to ask the forgiveness of God, the Almighty as well. Everything is easy for God, the Almighty. If He wills, covid-19 can go away in the blink of an eye.

Allah, the Almighty says in the Holy Quran:

• But Allah would not punish them while you, [O Muhammad], are among them, and Allah would not punish them while they seek forgiveness. [Quran, interpretation of meaning 8:33]

So join me forum members in embracing Islam and turning back to our Creator, the Almighty alone and let us then constantly keep asking for His forgiveness. If He, the Almighty accepts our repentance, it is my hope that He saves us from such a horrible death and gives us a good death instead.

Has it ever crossed your mind that your 'God' might wish to give you this horrible death?

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:54 am Has it ever crossed your mind that your 'God' might wish to give you this horrible death?

Thank you Arizing_uk for this pertinent question.

In Islam, no Muslims should feel secure from the decree of Allah, the Almighty. Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said that every son of Adam sins, and we Muslims completely acknowledge that we are sinners.

• Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: "All of the children of Adam are sinners, and the best sinners are those who repent."[ Sunan al-Tirmidhī 2499]

Moreover, Allah, the Almighty Himself warns us from feeling secure from His plans in the Holy Quran thus:

• Then did they feel secure from the plan of Allah ? But no one feels secure from the plan of Allah except the losing people.[Quran, interpretation of meaning, 7:99]

But we are also warned not to fall into the other extreme and despair of the mercy of our Creator, the Almighty:

• Indeed, no one despairs of relief from Allah except the disbelieving people." [Quran, interpretation of meaning 12:87]

In Islam, Muslims are to live their lives in a state of mind which is in between these two extremes, i.e the state of mind in which we fear the punishment of Allah and at the same time hoping for His mercy.

And Allah, the Most Merciful have given us, the Muslims, the verse of happiness in the Holy Quran:

• Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful." [Quran, interpretation of meaning 39:53]

There is a beautiful story behind the verse of happiness and this story is about our father Prophet Adam(pbuh) and it is narrated by a Muslim preacher in the following video if you are interested: https://youtu.be/tqoaR6eyvTk [7 minutes]

Glossary: "fitnah" in Arabic means difficulties, trials. "Iblis" is the name of Satan, the cursed in Arabic. If any other Arabic word you do not understand, please feel free to ask.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:09 am After reading about some of the horror stories going on in New York and other places in the world from COVID-19 right now--people drowning in their own blood-filled lungs, medical personnel getting sick while trying to help others--it really makes me wonder what kind of "god" presides over such horror? Is there really a God at all? And if there were, would it not be a God of evil? I was once an atheist because I thought the world was too messed up to be run by a God. Later I was willing to switch to agnosticism because I thought maybe the world is not such an evil place after all. But now I see so much suffering and horror that It really makes me want to go back to being an atheist or else it makes me think God must be evil. I can't believe in a God who allows so much suffering.

There is only God.

All manifestos / reports of your surround are one of the infinite expressions of God, appearing as self bias.

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:14 am

Walker wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 6:19 am In the blame-logic of such a view, without God either atheists or nobody would be to blame for abominations. Outside of the view, blame the Chinese communist government, which I hear supplants God in that culture.

How could an atheist blame a 'God"? I think you are confusing atheists with ex-theists as if an atheist wished to blame someone then Chinese food hygiene practices would be a rational choice.

I think for the benefit of yourself and the world you should be more concerned with your own confusion instead of inspecting elevators without a license.

It's a mystery how your brain went from my statement to asking how an atheist could blame God, but I'm not surprised.

Because blame-logic requires someone to blame, and because no God means no theists, this leaves either atheists or no one to blame.

If you say God is a delusion to be blamed, then you are saying that delusion causes suffering and then you're veering back into rationality, but if you should feel the need to be honest that track must also include your own delusional comprehension of God.

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 11:54 am Has it ever crossed your mind that your 'God' might wish to give you this horrible death?

If there is a God, and if God wishes to give us horrible deaths, then I will not worship or praise God if it's out of fear and intimidation. And God would not be a good God in that case. Or if God is indifferent and doesn't give a piss what happens to human beings then, likewise, I see no reason to worship or pray if it makes no difference.

Gary Childress wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 2:31 pm If there is a God, and if God wishes to give us horrible deaths, then I will not worship or praise God if it's out of fear and intimidation. And God would not be a good God in that case. Or if God is indifferent and doesn't give a piss what happens to human beings then, likewise, I see no reason to worship or pray if it makes no difference.

It seems quite clear that a god is imagined as any of us make of it -- that's why so many people have imagined/believed in different gods. But if reality clearly doesn't match/reflect the beliefs, then yes, it seems inefficient to continue being entangled in such webs of belief. Often, somebody else is profiting/gaining from the beliefs of others... either financially or through control/power.

Surely our ability to access the network that all of nature/existence is part of is innate for each of us from the moment we're born. (Does anything else in nature ask for spiritual direction?) Instead of seeking vehicles and paths to access such a thing, why not remove/ignore the noise that has been added on and that actually obscures it?