Philosophy Now Forum

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:47 pm One either observes or undergoes. To undergo is to "suffer" to have done to and to "know" in this pain which is living. To "suffer," too, can be to be in ecstasies or to feel the rivers flowing through the desert and lilac fields overtake the muddy expanse. Thus the indescrible and "poetic" belong to what is "suffered" and risk to be mere isolated "aesthtic" exsistence.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:47 pm To observe is to have the thing available to logistical activity. To arrange and platz down. The tatsache or placement of the things is responsive immeditly to collective exsistence. Its work is passed on a leveling to an average norm of suffering or undergoing out of which it then calls itself responsible and works out a theory of the "practical" ie that that is good to the average mass is practicle.

nothing wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:01 pm

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:47 pm One either observes or undergoes. To undergo is to "suffer" to have done to and to "know" in this pain which is living. To "suffer," too, can be to be in ecstasies or to feel the rivers flowing through the desert and lilac fields overtake the muddy expanse. Thus the indescrible and "poetic" belong to what is "suffered" and risk to be mere isolated "aesthtic" exsistence.

Undergoes seems to imply attachment: to become attached,
thus to be subject to the object(s) (or subject(s), if imagined)
such to suffer being so attached.

It seems to be how a proper idolatry would work at its core
indiscriminate of the who-what: just the attachment/binding alone.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:47 pm To observe is to have the thing available to logistical activity. To arrange and platz down. The tatsache or placement of the things is responsive immeditly to collective exsistence. Its work is passed on a leveling to an average norm of suffering or undergoing out of which it then calls itself responsible and works out a theory of the "practical" ie that that is good to the average mass is practicle.

Implies both discretion and inquiry:
'conscience' is 'science' (ie. to inquire)
with 'con' prefixed, as (or applied to) one.

Therefor conscience regards both planetary conscience
and the conscience of the one observing, as
they can not be de-coupled. If this is true, each person has in them
a ground that concerns a collective conscience, the integrity of which
transcends the physical entirely, as it is also metaphysical.

This ground must be the that which is universally bestowed, locally employed
such to be a constituency of space and time themselves. After all, of all
the fruits (ie. beliefs) one could possibly consume, one will naturally pursue those fruits
pleasing to the sight, and looking good for food, but yet: there are fruits gotten whence trees
whose both branch and root are rotten, thus yield not life, but misery, suffering and death.

Those are the ones who "believe" to be something
they are not, and thus is the tree of undergoing false "belief".

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:21 pm How does "attaching' happen, what is "attaching?" Can it be observed?

Someone may be cold and delibratly not put on a jacket. They may undergo the cold. Know it, be concerned. On the other hand they might observe "themselves" as being cold without concern.

...

How does attaching link to observing exactly? Aren't we attached observing, or to observing?

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:21 pm I don't believe in this. It may accidently become planetary earth observation, because the European world spreads out. However, it is not a true science, but a imagining.

nothing wrote: ↑Thu Mar 26, 2020 3:01 pm

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:21 pm How does "attaching' happen, what is "attaching?" Can it be observed?

Someone may be cold and delibratly not put on a jacket. They may undergo the cold. Know it, be concerned. On the other hand they might observe "themselves" as being cold without concern.

...

How does attaching link to observing exactly? Aren't we attached observing, or to observing?

Attachment, as it concerns any sole discretionary body, always has a constituency of/as a belief(s)
taken as a local identity. For example, "I am a Jew/Christian/Muslim..." fixes the psychology of the "believer"
to that particular identity rendering the mind ever-serving (only) that identity, so long as adopted.

In this way they are both undergoing life as that identity, however may not necessarily also be observant of self
as this self-observation requires a separation from any/all belief-based identities, and those who do/can not
separate from their thought/identity thus suffer whatever lunacy/experience begotten has began it. Therefor roots are important.

"I know I am..." implies a grounded acknowledgement of self, whereas
"I believe I am..." is only limited to the imagination of that being.

That is why a universal axes must exist: such to distinguish 'all' and 'not' given two roots: 'to know' and 'to believe'
implying a bi-rotation: {to know all (thus) not to believe} and/or {to believe all (thus) not to know} which clarifies
the only possible direction/orientation (ie. identity) of the two Edenic trees that would/must be sitting in Eden
if the book of Genesis is accurate in indicating there are two "trees": of living, and of knowledge of good and evil.

Knowledge of good and evil are universal absolutes: whatever god is all-knowing of, it must include this (if a real phenomena).
However note: whatever they are (or are not) it would take a believer to ever believe one is the other, thus in any case
all eaters of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil are believers. This has present-day application.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:21 pm I don't believe in this. It may accidently become planetary earth observation, because the European world spreads out. However, it is not a true science, but a imagining.

I'm sorry I don't understand what you mean by 'planetary earth observation' and/or the reference to the European world. The point I was making was concerning the practical need for an invariance between what is above (ie. macro) and what is below (ie. micro) outside of scale/size. Thus the gravity of a body is intrinsic to its own constituency, just as the gravity of ones own belief-based ignorance is likewise intrinsic to its own constituency.

This is one property/characteristic that applies to both: physical (lower) and metaphysical (higher) because they are not actually two, they are one. The difference would be s³/t as every-day experience as normal, but t³/s (energy) captures the same constituency, only upside-down. This upside-down nature is due to any constituency of belief-based ignorance such to believe the opposite of what is true, hence the Edenic warning of eating from the tree of universal absolutes good and evil. If one is wrong, one is dead wrong, and for an indefinite amount of "time" because those universal absolutes transcend space/time entirely, thus if a "believer" at any time "believes" to know them, and knows not, the same is the constituency of their own belief-based ignorance. Again, this has present-day application: you can see the "believers" that they are actually 180-degrees upside-down for ever-believing that someone/something else is "to blame" for their own suffering. Blame is related to the original sin.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:04 pm know I am..." implies a grounded acknowledgement of self, whereas
"I believe I am..." is only limited to the imagination of that being"

Plato in his divided line called this kind of "knowing" pistis, which is, in the translation, relience. Relience involves the "pragma" which are prr-interpreted by natural Dasien as practical because assumed to be good. We don't call bad actions practicle. These include many "superstitious" behaviours judged by the global European science of "facts" as distinguished from values. The thinking or belief which took over the world I'm the first half of the 20th century. The becoming "cultural" of the globe of isolated world peoples.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:04 pm One may believe in the distinction blindly. Facts are supposed to be "knowable" and only interpreted as knowns. Interpretations of the so-called facts are called Ideological. The book on DNA by the political scientist named for the standard distribution or "bell curve" is such a work of ideology.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:04 pm The perplexity is two-fold. The data is assumed to be "neutral" the European belief in value-free bits of reality. The scientific branch with it's specific play space of methods themes of investigation and standards of rigour
is passed off as science as such. I'm reality it is a specific art or manner of repeatedly using things. Leatherworking, hat making, but more complex.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:04 pm Secondly the ideology is by no means simply untrue. It is rather assperation. It propagandizes towards a future by interpreting in the light of it's assumed practical goal. But this, to repeat, tacitly assumed the good of the plan. Since the believed to be bad is not practicle. All the European sciences may be impractical judged by the destructiveness they arm humans with.

nothing wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 1:02 pm

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:04 pm know I am..." implies a grounded acknowledgement of self, whereas
"I believe I am..." is only limited to the imagination of that being"

Plato in his divided line called this kind of "knowing" pistis, which is, in the translation, relience. Relience involves the "pragma" which are prr-interpreted by natural Dasien as practical because assumed to be good. We don't call bad actions practicle. These include many "superstitious" behaviours judged by the global European science of "facts" as distinguished from values. The thinking or belief which took over the world I'm the first half of the 20th century. The becoming "cultural" of the globe of isolated world peoples.

Because assumed to be good? That is the problem in-and-of-itself: to assume/believe to know such a universal absolute as good (and/or evil).
It is those who assume/believe, and if/when wrong, are dead wrong should such a belief justify killing another because of some cause of god.

The body is a Φ ratio whose proportions reflect multiplication/powers of Φ.



Therefor you have:
Φ as Apex = Head {...I AM...}
Φ² Arms = Binary Operators {ALPHA}{OMEGA}
Φ³ Legs = Binary Roots {BEG}{END}
_______________________________________
Universally Bestowed Operators/Roots compose a 2x2 axes
that is locally employed by the being.

which can also be seen as an axes used to compare/juxtapose roots via some operation(s)/inquiry(s):

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:04 pm One may believe in the distinction blindly. Facts are supposed to be "knowable" and only interpreted as knowns. Interpretations of the so-called facts are called Ideological. The book on DNA by the political scientist named for the standard distribution or "bell curve" is such a work of ideology.

a null-boundary binary axes: {ALL+}∞{-NOT}
thus if/when setting the roots {TO KNOW} and {TO BELIEVE} to compare:
{TO KNOW ALL}thus{NOT TO BELIEVE} and
{TO BELIEVE ALL}thus{NOT TO KNOW}
clarifies two orientations:
indefinitely approaches all-knowing (god-or-no-god), and
indefinitely approach any/all belief-based ignorances
causing/sustaining suffering/death.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:04 pm The perplexity is two-fold. The data is assumed to be "neutral" the European belief in value-free bits of reality. The scientific branch with it's specific play space of methods themes of investigation and standards of rigour
is passed off as science as such. I'm reality it is a specific art or manner of repeatedly using things. Leatherworking, hat making, but more complex.

If even being so, the diversity of it is a much better state than believing only a single book
to be the most supreme document on the face of the planet, and anyone who disagrees
will have war waged against them. We are presently entering one of those wars:

'believer vs. unbeliever'

and it takes a "believer" to ever "believe" evil is good / Satan is god.
Only a "believer" can eat from that tree and get it wrong.
Let it be a sign as to how fucked up this planet is:
the book-worshiping "believers" blame Jews, yet
what makes the Jew is their worshiping a single book (!)
thus all such "believers" are practically "Jews"
who project/scapegoat/blame/accuse/slander etc.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Fri Mar 27, 2020 9:04 pm Secondly the ideology is by no means simply untrue. It is rather assperation. It propagandizes towards a future by interpreting in the light of it's assumed practical goal. But this, to repeat, tacitly assumed the good of the plan. Since the believed to be bad is not practicle. All the European sciences may be impractical judged by the destructiveness they arm humans with.

The same is the root of Nazism/fascism/socialism: "believers".
European sciences are nowhere near as destructive as such.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:32 pm The power of, now planetary, European science religion is seemingly due to the general belief, not held by many individuals, that the land or country must survive. Even at the cost of the esse delendum, or, the others are to be obliterated.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:32 pm In belief in continuance of the land or country, which must stand and never be on its knees, one finds support for the European religion or science. In the greatest potential to transform base matter into technological mass leathality.


Thus belief in land or country or people in society protected by government overseeing military requirements is belief in life as better than death in abstract general terms of a majority or of an elite will.

nothing wrote: ↑Sun Mar 29, 2020 3:36 pm

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:32 pm The power of, now planetary, European science religion is seemingly due to the general belief, not held by many individuals, that the land or country must survive. Even at the cost of the esse delendum, or, the others are to be obliterated.

I don't see the connection to anything European: one can just as easily say the same is true for ideological states such as Islam
wherein Muslims call themselves "believers" in/of some imagined 'state' that everyone is a "believing" Muslim or dead.

Thus the precedent is ever-present for such ideologies' need to survive. The problem is: their way of living involves killing "unbelievers"
thus so long as there are "unbelievers" to wage war against / kill, there is not only a need to survive, but a need to kill to survive.

We are seeing this play out: House of Islam blames the West / U.S. / Israel for anything and everything,
the "believers" who don't know any better blindly "believe" the manufactured crises and hate-inspiring jihad narratives
and become weaponized against the West in the form of outrage groups/mobs, activist organizations such as ANTIFA etc.
and are all Islamic-owned and -operated, but the "believers" ignorantly "believe" the lies instead. This psych-war has been
going on for decades, now having culminated into Islam employing COVID-19 as a global jihad against all "unbelievers".

European science is not up to any such nonsense that is killing humanity. "Believer vs. unbeliever" is killing humanity,
and the House of Islam has some audacity to try to point their fingers at others, like the Jews before them.
Worshiping a single book is what makes the Jew, thus there is no distinction between the Jew and the Muslim
less one: their hat got smaller. They still spill blood over books and idols, blaming all others for their own.

Now their pathetic book/idol war has the entire planet succumb to immense suffering by the hands
of the "Deep State": The Muslim Brotherhood who religiously hide behind Jews while being the real "pigs".

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Sat Mar 28, 2020 9:32 pm In belief in continuance of the land or country, which must stand and never be on its knees, one finds support for the European religion or science. In the greatest potential to transform base matter into technological mass leathality.


Thus belief in land or country or people in society protected by government overseeing military requirements is belief in life as better than death in abstract general terms of a majority or of an elite will.

There is a difference between "belief" and "knowledge" - the same difference responsible for why the same Muhammadan cult
is still in the 7th C: they immovably fixate on a single (false) belief rather than pursue true knowledge, thus are duly stagnated and retarded.
Because they can't deal with this reality, they attempt to substitute with their own, acting as the rot of their own: a need to survive: a belief.

Islam represents everything wrong with humanity: authority as truth, rather than truth as authority.
Thus they can only whine and squeal at whoever is unafraid to speak such truths concerning the sickness of Islam
and other such "belief"-based states that care only for themselves, and not of others, for despising all others
who do not eat the same rotten fruits from the same rotten tree such to suffer and die ad infinitum.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:58 am The period called the Enlightenment consisted in European science coming to take over the world after hundreds of years of development and propaganda in European countries. Its final stage was the claim of factual knowledge as distinguished from wisdom or values. The basis of your claim.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:58 am This leads to the view, a value or belief, that technological or material advances through constant application of the methods of European science will lead to Progress. That is human improvment or happiness.

The wars come both from the need to hold one's own ground against the other lands or countries in the race to develop technologically/militarily and in the form of the non-believers who deny the trajectory of this European Progress of the material.

Thus it becomes nessisary to recognize more than one form of rationality. The West kills whoever refuses its rationality.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:58 am For instance in the case of "interventions" for the sake of "Universal human rights" aka western values. One speaks then of Realism, Moralism, and of Islamic fatal heresies against the assumptions of the European settlement into facts and values now hosted on the planet.

nothing wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 1:22 am

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:58 am The period called the Enlightenment consisted in European science coming to take over the world after hundreds of years of development and propaganda in European countries. Its final stage was the claim of factual knowledge as distinguished from wisdom or values. The basis of your claim.

There never was a final stage or claim of "factual knowledge", only a pursuit: Western science ultimately correctly designated 'god' as an ever-receding pocket of scientific ignorance, which is what "belief" in any god is: ignorant, because belief is antithetical to knowledge.

In any event: it is vastly superior to "believing" that a single book is the perfect word of a god. The point of the Enlightenment was to question such beliefs. Islam never did/does that: they are stagnated, thus "believer vs. unbeliever" is still a driving force in/of the ideology.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:58 am This leads to the view, a value or belief, that technological or material advances through constant application of the methods of European science will lead to Progress. That is human improvment or happiness.

The wars come both from the need to hold one's own ground against the other lands or countries in the race to develop technologically/militarily and in the form of the non-believers who deny the trajectory of this European Progress of the material.

Thus it becomes nessisary to recognize more than one form of rationality. The West kills whoever refuses its rationality.

The West? You mean Islam? Islam kills whoever refuses its "rationality".
Are you trying to scapegoat the crimes of the House of Islam onto the West?
I mean... it's what the House of Islam does, blame/scapegoat onto others
what they are themselves guilty of. It's called psychological projection
and is the illness underlying Islam.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:58 am For instance in the case of "interventions" for the sake of "Universal human rights" aka western values. One speaks then of Realism, Moralism, and of Islamic fatal heresies against the assumptions of the European settlement into facts and values now hosted on the planet.

Islam is rooted in the denial of fundamental human rights. An ideology rooted in emulating a polygamous pedophile warlord who committed genocide against Jews (same as Adolph Hitler) is not one with any right to contest the values of the West, and certainly not one to complain of "interventions" - if "believers" were not abusing human beings, there would be no intervention needed nor desired.

The House of Islam needs to stop blaming humanity for its own stupidity: the world is not the House of Islam's scapegoat.
It worked with the Jews for 1400 years: it is not going to work with all of humanity - the scapegoating is old-world politics
and humanity needs to evolve. Islam doesn't evolve, it only kills whoever refuses to worship the dead pedophile man.

Rather bizarre how you would attempt to pin "kills whoever refuses its rationality" on the West when Islam does no better, if anything: worse.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:23 am
The division of "hard sciences" from the rest is historical. Based on the doctrine of werfrei or value-free philosophy or science, the so called " natural sciences." It affected a split. Judgments about good and bad were removed from the sphere of knowledge or the scientific fact. This doesn't work because such judgments still need to be made. They are made politicaly rather than scientificaly.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:23 am I mention in passing:
http://www.alhewar.com/ISLAMDECL.html

In practice political decisions are worse, more emotional, more arbitrary, interested and crazy than responsible theological teachings.

Your charecature is unconvincing. Islam is not a blind obidence to a book any more than the US blindly obeys it sacred Constitution. It is filtered through responsible practices of interpretation. It's of little use to list atrocities since technological civilization has committed vastly more than any previous civilizations or orders of things could dream of.

nothing wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 1:05 pm

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:23 am
The division of "hard sciences" from the rest is historical. Based on the doctrine of werfrei or value-free philosophy or science, the so called " natural sciences." It affected a split. Judgments about good and bad were removed from the sphere of knowledge or the scientific fact. This doesn't work because such judgments still need to be made. They are made politicaly rather than scientificaly.

By stating judgements of so-called good and bad / good and evil "need to be made", one is
demonstrating their ignorance of the very first admonishment given to the biblical "Adam"
viz. Genesis 2:17 concerning eating from the tree whose roots are the same, thus concerns
Judaism/Christianity/Islam indiscriminate.

Knowledge of good and evil implies a universal absolute: to absolute degree, thus no uncertainty.
If a being "believes" to know so-called good and bad, and they are wrong, they are dead wrong.

ABC'S of GOOD and EVIL
A believes B is evil
B believes A is evil
________________
A & B annihilate

C knows neither knew from which tree they even ate
(the difference is between "belief" and "knowledge").

Thus set "to believe" and "to know" as roots,
and set "all" and "not" as operators to find the solution:
{to believe all (thus) not to know} approaches all possible belief-based ignorance(s)
{to know all (thus) not to believe} approaches all-knowing indefinitely, god-or-no-god.

It is a pentagram: I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end.
The "believer" was supposed to map it onto themselves, because it is claimed
Christ is within. Either it is, or it is not. For the "believing" it certainly is not.

Again, "believer vs. unbeliever". All-knowing implies no belief-based ignorance.

It takes a "believer" to "believe" evil is good, thus
all eaters of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil
such to bring suffering/death into the world,
Judaism/Christianity/Islam indiscrimate
are "believers" who "believe" evil is good / satan is god
and/or themselves "superior" to others, as is the case
with Islam: all Muslims are "believers" killing "unbelievers".

If satan requires belief in order that a believer ever-somehow believe satan is god,
satan is pinned to one side of the "believer vs. unbeliever" conflict: the believers.

Islam can not understand this because they are worshiping a single book and a dead
pedophile warlord, over which they spill blood if ridiculed. That is not a religion, that is
insane idol worship (not to mention the false witness the shahada is, for it being impossible
to bear a true witness of a dead man). Islam is thorough insanity, and clearly they cannot hide
much longer, the Muslim Brotherhood is clearly the deep state.

TheVisionofEr wrote: ↑Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:23 am I mention in passing:
http://www.alhewar.com/ISLAMDECL.html

In practice political decisions are worse, more emotional, more arbitrary, interested and crazy than responsible theological teachings.

Your charecature is unconvincing. Islam is not a blind obidence to a book any more than the US blindly obeys it sacred Constitution. It is filtered through responsible practices of interpretation. It's of little use to list atrocities since technological civilization has committed vastly more than any previous civilizations or orders of things could dream of.

Islam is certainly a blind obedience to a book more than any other: the U.S. does not claim the constitution came from a god, nor
employs a male central figure to imitate / emulate, such to establish the "pattern of living" of the state, as in Islam and Muhammad.
The Muhammadans worship Muhammad moreso than the Christians worship Jesus, thus it is revealing of their own foul nature
to accuse other nations of being 'idolator nations' when the "believing" Muslim is no different than any book-worshiping Jew.

Truth is timeless: all non-peaceful states (all of them, including Islam) can't divide humanity on the basis of "believer vs. unbeliever" and claim to be a religion of peace. The same would be a division of perpetual conflict, the precise inverse, hence Islam is 180-degrees upside-down because it is rooted in pathologically accusing/blaming their perceived enemy for what they are themselves guilty of. It is called 'psychological projection' (biblical: Mark of Cain) and humanity has had enough abuse being called racists/bigots/Islamophobes/supremacists when, in fact, these are all qualities and characteristics of the House of Islam, scapegoated onto all who dare call Islam into question.

Islam is the root of Nazism/fascism/socialism and they've been blaming Jews for 1400 years: it's not happening anymore.
The Qur'an is man-made (like the Torah before it) and bearing a witness of a dead pedophile as a prophet of god is nothing short
of insanity and pure madness.