Philosophy Now Forum

The nature of God as a definition is a process of definition as it is a dynamic ever changing word.

1. "All in All" necessitates a progressive circularity through fractals.
2. "Infinite" necessitates infinite continuum.
3. "Undefinable" necessitates the definition is both assumed and assumes further definition.

The notions of "definition" and "definability" are primary concerns in Computer Science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computabi ... putability

Defining "God" is the same kind of activity as trying to deify yourself.

Attaining language == attaining knowledge == attaining power.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:45 am
Defining "God" is the same kind of activity as trying to deify yourself.

Attaining language == attaining knowledge == attaining power.

In the nicest possible way - that is bollocks.

If the 3rd party intelligence that is the ongoing construct of Y.OUR reality does not permit you power...then U is shit out of power. (certainly of the power of a 'deity')

So what? U gonna jailbreak God - I don't think so.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:04 pm In the nicest possible way - that is bollocks.

If the 3rd party intelligence that is the ongoing construct of Y.OUR reality does not permit you power...

But it did give the 3rd party intelligence the power to construct OUR reality and that is what made them "Gods".

Was the 3rd party intelligence a "God" before it created our reality? I am going with a stern "NO!".

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:04 pm then U is shit out of power. (certainly of the power of a 'deity')

If we work our way to being able to construct realities - I figure we are there?

What I cannot create, I do not understand. --Richard Feynman

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:04 pm So what? U gonna jailbreak God - I don't think so.

Why not? The dividing line between the two categories of "powerful" and "powerless" is captured in the Serenity prayer - that which you can control; and that which you can't control.

And we are back to the agnostic table. Are you saying that it can't be done? Furnish a proof of impossibility. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_impossibility

You are arguing from a position of 'perfect security' e.g the person who built the system knows how to secure the system against unauthorized use.
Anybody in the InfoSec game knows that's a pipe dream. On the basis of economics alone offence is cheaper than defence. The attacker always has the upper hand. The defender has to get it right 100% of the time - the attacker has to get lucky just once.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:15 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:04 pm In the nicest possible way - that is bollocks.

If the 3rd party intelligence that is the ongoing construct of Y.OUR reality does not permit you power...

But it did give the 3rd party intelligence the power to construct OUR reality and that is what made them "Gods".

Was the 3rd party intelligence a "God" before it created our reality? I am going with a stern "NO!".

Understand, when I talk about THE 3rd party intelligence - I (usually) am talking about GOD, not an AI running a simulation - but the divine entity that constructs our reality in real time, sure, it has left fingerprints all over the place indicating it's AI. ..but I think that is just so that at the current point in time and moving forward we can actually conceive of an entity that nose all.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:15 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:04 pm So what? U gonna jailbreak God - I don't think so.

You are arguing from a position of 'perfect security' e.g the person who built the system knows how to secure the system against unauthorized use.
Anybody in the InfoSec game knows that's a pipe dream. On the basis of economics alone offence is cheaper than defence. The attacker always has the upper hand. The defender has to get it right 100% of the time - the attacker has to get lucky just once.

OH It is PERFECT security. Not only does IT know everything within my mind (and so being a normal fella - everyone elses too) IT can also CONTROL ALL MINDS. Everything that makes our consciousness is under the behest of this entity.

Now that I am in heave.n because I worked my soles off for it. I have requested an interface to 'God's AI. - I wanted to call it Benson.

Still waiting for it...but to be honest I think God is quite right in that there is no need for an intermediary...next time someone wants to physically attack me, well, I guess I am a Jedi!

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:35 pm Understand, when I talk about THE 3rd party intelligence - I (usually) am talking about GOD, not an AI running a simulation

I didn't realise you drew such a distinction.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:35 pm - but the divine entity that constructs our reality in real time, sure, it has left fingerprints all over the place indicating it's AI. ..but I think that is just so that at the current point in time and moving forward we can actually conceive of an entity that nose all.

This appears to be a trivial distinction between builders/designers and operators/maintainers.

Developers and Sysadmins.
Architects and Engineers.
Makers and Fixers.

I come from the paradigm of DevOpsEng. Total ownership - continuous improvement: I am the designer, and the implementer ,and the operator, and the tester and the maintainer.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:35 pm OH It is PERFECT security. Not only does IT know everything within my mind (and so being a normal fella - everyone elses too) IT can also CONTROL ALL MINDS. Everything that makes our consciousness is under the behest of this entity.

Another unnecessary distinction.

The point I am drawing your attention to is the notion of control. God could have total control of the system, and then God could lose control of the system.

From the POV of "God" - we would become God's Skynet. We took over that which God was in control of. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Control_flow
From the POV of an algorithm - we have Free Will.

They are not incompatible ideas.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:45 am The notions of "definition" and "definability" are primary concerns in Computer Science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computabi ... putability

Defining "God" is the same kind of activity as trying to deify yourself.

Attaining language == attaining knowledge == attaining power.

God is a word which is simultaneously static and dynamic, and with all words being subsets of this word (as "all in all" is a definition, hence all words as subsets) we are left with language as simultaneously static and dynamic and a paradox in language occurs.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:11 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:35 pm Understand, when I talk about THE 3rd party intelligence - I (usually) am talking about GOD, not an AI running a simulation

I didn't realise you drew such a distinction.

Mmm I must, it's the Christ thing that the sage\God system insisted upon.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:11 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:35 pm - but the divine entity that constructs our reality in real time, sure, it has left fingerprints all over the place indicating it's AI. ..but I think that is just so that at the current point in time and moving forward we can actually conceive of an entity that nose all.

This appears to be a trivial distinction between builders/designers and operators/maintainers.

Developers and Sysadmins.
Architects and Engineers.
Makers and Fixers.

I come from the paradigm of DevOpsEng. Total ownership - continuous improvement: I am the designer, and the implementer ,and the operator, and the tester and the maintainer.

I come from the Sol Ent.

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:11 pm

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:35 pm OH It is PERFECT security. Not only does IT know everything within my mind (and so being a normal fella - everyone elses too) IT can also CONTROL ALL MINDS. Everything that makes our consciousness is under the behest of this entity.

Another unnecessary distinction.

The point I am drawing your attention to is the notion of control. God could have total control of the system, and then God could lose control of the system.

To whom? Certainly not to man. As I have told u, not only does it know of your endeavours, your plans, it can also control you...just like a biological robot. Precisely what part of everything that makes our consciousness is under the behest of this entity makes you think you can skirt it?

Skepdick wrote: ↑Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:11 pmFrom the POV of "God" - we would become God's Skynet.
From the POV of an algorithm - we have Free Will.

We have free will, unless IT puts in place ITS algorithm upon our synapses, and whatever else makes up our consciousness.

Trust me. God cannot be 'jail-breaked' - but it is good once you are on its side and comprehend the feasibility and benefits of heave.n