commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:33 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:57 pm
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pm
The notion of Jesus dying in Christianity is seriously flawed because God cannot die and still be God and also there cannot be three Gods in one
Yes that
misinterpretation is very flawed.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pmAnd the status of Jesus as God is also a direct violation of the First Commandment that expressly forbids the worship of anyone other than God
Again a misinterpretation has led to a misunderstanding.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pmAlso if Jesus is God he cannot be human but apparently he is just as human as anyone else but without sin which is very confusing indeed.
Misinterpretation and misunderstanding do lead to confusion.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pmSo when he was preaching for the last three years of his life was he merely human or was he actually God as he obviously cannot be both
This is the same as EVERY human being. One of them called "jesus" was no different at all.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pmIslam is so much clearer on this - Jesus did not die but instead ascended into Heaven
And where do you think this 'heaven' place is exactly?
Understanding what 'the second coming of "jesus" ' means, then understanding how "jesus" is still alive here on earth in heaven will also be understood.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pmHe was human but without sin because he was a prophet but he was never God and this is true of all the prophets in Islam
Part of the reason why this may be clearer than christianity is because islam was written in earlier times.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pmTo worship Jesus as God in Islam would be considered blasphemy and a violation of the shahada which says that there is no God but Allah
And this is more correct because to worship one of 'you', human beings, over "another one" is wrong. IF any one wants to worship any one then it would bestie to worship thy True Self, but obviously none of you can do that until you can answer the question 'Who am 'I'?' properly and accurately.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pmThis is the declaration all converts to Islam have to make so no Muslim worships Jesus the way that Christians do as it is absolutely haram
If any one of of you wants to 'convert', then I suggest just concentrating on converting, or just changing, your own self for the better. If you are Serious about that, then you WILL understand who thy True Self IS, and then you understand what the messages are saying from ALL religions. Then there will be NO more misinterpretations NOR misunderstandings, and therefore NO more confusion at all.
Age, I feel that I am indeed confused.
Confused about what exactly?
That there are writings before you, which state that the correct interpretations and understandings are KNOWN?
Or, just generally confused like EVERY other adult human being is in relation to religion, and the mis/interpretation and mis/understanding of them?
If you are indeed confused in relation to the former, then do not be. If you just remain completely OPEN, then ALL can be simplified and made clear, or just revealed.
If you are indeed confused in relation to the latter, then do not feel alone.
If you are indeed confused in relation to some thing else, then what is that?
commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:33 pm What are the correct interpretations and understandings for what you cited above? Because I am presently mistaken,
Did you think or believe that you were not mistaken previously?
commonsense wrote: ↑Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:33 pmI am more than willing to accept the unflawed interpretations.
Great, it would help tremendously though if I was to be enlightened to what exactly are the flawed interpretations that you already KNOW of, and which are the non flawed interpretations that you currently KNOW of. Because if you already KNOW of the non flawed interpretations, then I do not need to repeat them to you. If you ALREADY KNOW the non flawed interpretations, then you would also be able to help ALL "others" in better understanding.
Now, since you asked me for what are the correct interpretations and understanding for what I cited above, then I will proceed to begin to explain. But remember to understand FULLY the interpretations, which I will start with and only just touch on, KNOWING who and what God IS and who and what 'you' are, NEEDS to be fully understood first.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pmThe notion of Jesus dying in Christianity is seriously flawed because God cannot die and still be God and also there cannot be three Gods in one
The word "jesus" was just a name/label placed upon a human body, which was born already with a 'profile'. With EVERY, old enough, human body there are non visible 'thoughts' and 'emotions', these are just what a 'person' is. A 'human being' is just a human body and a person. There is, however, an OPENNESS as well. This OPENNESS allows ANY human being to obtain and grasp ANY information and knowledge. This OPENNESS provides human beings to learn, understand, and reason ANY thing and EVERY thing. Although in the days of when this "jesus" was walking the streets there were no motor vehicles nor airplanes, dropping bombs on earth, but if this 'human being' was transport to today, when this is written, this human being could learn to understand and reason this is the way "we" live now, as well as learning how to drive and fly these contraptions, although to "jesus" at that time about 2000 years ago these things would be completely unimaginable and unfathomable. This unimaginable and unfathomable perception is just like 'you', human beings, in the days of when this is written it is completely unimaginable and unfathomable that in the not to distant future ALL human beings are living in peace and harmony and driving/flying about contraptions, which transport them in what is now commonly known as 'time-travel'. It was the same OPENNESS, which is what allowed the one species of human beings to continually learn, understand, and reason how to change from 'walking the streets, and talking,' to 'driving along the streets and flying above them, and killing', to 'transporting from street to street effortlessly and timelessly, and in peace and harmony'. This OPENNESS is, in a sense, God.
So, with a human body comes 'thoughts and emotions', the 'person', and an 'OPENNESS', thee 'God'.
To most people they see the human body as the person, so when the body stops breathing and stops pumping blood, they see that the person has died. So they see that "jesus" died when the body stopped pumping blood and breathing on the cross. The OPENNESS that comes with EVERY human body, however, remains forever. This is how God can not die. God still IS. The body labeled "jesus" was NOT God, and the thoughts and emotions within that body was NOT God. These two different things are what is generally known as the person, these, in a sense, "die", but thee OPENNESS or God NEVER dies. The OPENNESS within ALL of humanity IS FOREVER.
This is a tiny fraction of what could be said to explain FULLY this 'interpretation'. By the way 'this' interpretation is just that; 'A' interpretation. The 'correct' interpretation is ONLY the One that EVERY one agrees with. This applies for EVERY 'interpretation' I give.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pmAnd the status of Jesus as God is also a direct violation of the First Commandment that expressly forbids the worship of anyone other than God
This just simply means ONLY "worship", for lack of a better word, one's True Self, which is the OPENNESS part, and do NOT worship the 'thinking/emotional' part. OPENNESS (of God) is after all where True Intelligence comes from. Where ALL-Knowing comes from. The wise words coming from the body of "jesus", or any body, which EVERY one agrees with any way, comes from God, which would better be 'worshiped' or 'followed', whereas the words coming from any body, which are obviously just what that body has 'personally' experienced, and NOT what EVERY one would agree with, are NOT wise words. These are, literally, just the 'person' "speaking", and NOT the one that it would be better to 'worship' nor 'follow'. The words, or KNOWledge, that EVERY one agrees with is thee wise words, or wise Knowledge, which it would be better to follow and/or worship.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pmAlso if Jesus is God he cannot be human but apparently he is just as human as anyone else but without sin which is very confusing indeed.
With EVERY human body comes a person. The one labeled "jesus" is just another one of these 'human beings'. "jesus" was just as 'human' as every other body is. However, the one known as "jesus", from birth, had been placed on a "pedestal", so from the outset the words that came from that body were LOOKED UP upon more than another other 'human body/being'. When the words from that body known as "jesus" was agreed with by MORE people, then it was ASSUMED that the one known as "jesus" was MORE God-like than any other 'human being' is, which is just NOT true at all.
With EVERY body there is a part that is just "human", or just a 'person', and there is a part that is God. From the power of BELIEF, then the MORE one is BELIEVED to be God, or without "sin", then the MORE they CAN BE, and usually ARE. The other way also is true. The MORE one is BELIEVED to be of lower standing and with more "sin", then the MORE they usually ARE. This is WHY the word BELIEF is used in religion. The BELIEF in one's True Self, that is; the OPEN intelligent God-Self, is what is better to be BELIEVED IN, than the one personal self, which is what most people THINK is the really important one.
By the way the interpretation of word 'sin' by just about EVERY adult human being is a complete misinterpretation of what it really means in religion. Just 'missing the mark' of Who and What thy True Self IS, is just what 'sinning' IS and means.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pmSo when he was preaching for the last three years of his life was he merely human or was he actually God as he obviously cannot be both
What was being said/preached that was agreed with and accepted by EVERY one IS thee True Self God speaking/preaching. And, what was being said/preached that was NOT agreed with and NOT accepted by EVERY one, and is proven correct, IS just the personal self speaking/preaching.
There CAN BE and IS 'both' is ALL human bodies.
To distinguish between the two is to KNOW 'Knowing' from 'thinking'. What is already KNOWN, accepted and agreed with by EVERY one is the KNOWING KNOWN KNOWledge, which is True and Right, and what is NOT agreed with, and NOT accepted with by EVERY one is just what one or a few human beings 'think' is true and right.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pmIslam is so much clearer on this - Jesus did not die but instead ascended into Heaven
There is OBVIOUSLY no other place than this Universe. Therefore, heaven MUST BE HERE in this Universe, somewhere. Out of ALL of the known, by human beings, places to live in the Universe, earth is obviously the most inviting. Compared to any known places earth stands out above and beyond ANY other place. The beauty of earth compared to any other place in the Universe is obviously strikingly CLEAR.
"jesus", the person, is just the non visible 'thoughts and emotions', which 'ascend' spirit-like and not 'physically-like'. "jesus", the thoughts, are still HERE with human beings HERE on earth.
When human beings start accepting and taking responsibility for what they DO, and seriously start to change, for the better, then they will become God, or God-like, and when, and IF, this happens, then the second coming of "jesus" comes. This is just the recognition that IF 'we', adult human beings, are God, in that it is US who is creating this LIFE that we are living in; A heaven or a hell, then children are just the 'son' of God. Or, in more current language, instead of "jesus" being the 'son of God', ALL 'children' will literally be the children of ALL adults. If ALL adults start acting God-like, and start Creating a heaven for EVERY one, instead of the hell being currently Created, then the 'son of God', "jesus", are just 'children'. And, if the Truth be KNOWN, if adults listened to children ("jesus") instead of to their own personal selves, then children will TEACH
what IS actually True and Right in Life.
If children are BELIEVED in and ALLOWED to become their True Selves (God), instead of being told and forced a particular way, usually just for the 'love of money', then things WILL BE DONE on earth, as it IS in Heaven.
Again this is just a tiny fraction of what there is that could be explained so that ALL OF THIS is FULLY
understood.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pmHe was human but without sin because he was a prophet but he was never God and this is true of all the prophets in Islam
EVERY interpretation is just A interpretation. Only thee interpretation that is AGREED WITH by EVERY one is thee CORRECT one.
The word 'sin' here is generally and/or usually in reference to wrongness. If the human body that was known as "jesus" NEVER did any thing wrong, then I would be very surprised.
What is a 'prophet'?
Has NOT just about EVERY human being said at least some thing, which could be loosely seen as or defined as being prophesying?
Obviously a 'human being' or a 'person' is NOT God. But this does NOT mean that God is NOT a part of EVERY human being. Obviously with ALL human beings there is a KNOWING of what is True and Right in Life. This KNOWledge is just what 'God' IS; A KNOWING Spiritual Being. When this is NOT God is when the 'thinking' being, thinks, assumes, and/or believes that it KNOWS what is true and right.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pmTo worship Jesus as God in Islam would be considered blasphemy and a violation of the shahada which says that there is no God but Allah
The stupidity or ridiculousness to worship any thing other than God/Allah speaks for itself.
To follow or worship ANY human being, and NOT thy True Self, which is just God/Allah, would be just insanity on the highest level.
surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:25 pmThis is the declaration all converts to Islam have to make so no Muslim worships Jesus the way that Christians do as it is absolutely haram
And what is just as stupid is to follow any thing written in a book, just because 'it is written'.
The KNOWledge, which would be better worshiped and followed, is ALREADY KNOWN, just at the moment, of when this is written, this Knowledge is unconsciously KNOWN to and by most. Bringing this True and Right Knowledge to the forefront just involves 'letting go' of the "that", which is just THOUGHT, ASSUMED, and/or BELIEVED to be True and Right. Continually holding onto and speaking 'that', which is just thought, assumed, and/or believed to be true and right is what IS stopping and preventing the real Truth of things coming forward and being revealed.
These are 'my' interpretations and understandings of what I cited above. As for there 'correctness' this would obviously depend on EVERY one.