Philosophy Now Forum

What are the implications of what religion deems the fall of man.

What does the fall of man actually mean in relgious terminology?

Is Western civilisation on the brink of a social and economic collapse ?

Today, I read a news article that most high street shops were slashing their top branded clothing prices by 90%. Why because>
The world is finally waking up to the nonsense that is high street fashion. When in reality items of clothing that only cost around 50p to £1 to make are being sold in Shops for up to £50 per item.
Also, Small bottles of water costing £4 per bottle sold at Disney World Florida.

Those examples are just 2 of the many more examples that is the madness of being human.

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History tells us all cultures have their sell-by date. Do political strife, crippling inequality and climate change mean the West’s time is now up - Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... z628PZaPS4

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:51 am What are the implications of what religion deems the fall of man.

A better life, for EVERY one.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:51 amWhat does the fall of man actually mean in relgious terminology?

The greedy, warring, polluted, and stressful life ends, and a new one begins.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:51 amIs Western civilisation on the brink of a social and economic collapse ?

There is NO actual separate or different civilizations. There is only one, which the way it lives is about to fall, finish, or die, with a new life taking its place and beginning. Change just continues. The fall of way one way of life, just means a new one begins. Just like in evolution, when one species falls, then a new one begins. With the fall of hu/man being comes the better and new improved God being.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:51 amToday, I read a news article that most high street shops were slashing their top branded clothing prices by 90%. Why because>
The world is finally waking up to the nonsense that is high street fashion. When in reality items of clothing that only cost around 50p to £1 to make are being sold in Shops for up to £50 per item.
Also, Small bottles of water costing £4 per bottle sold at Disney World Florida.

Those examples are just 2 of the many more examples that is the madness of being human.

.

History tells us all cultures have their sell-by date. Do political strife, crippling inequality and climate change mean the West’s time is now up - Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... z628PZaPS4

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:51 am Is Western civilisation on the brink of a social and economic collapse ?

The world is finally waking up to the nonsense that is high street fashion. When in reality items of clothing that only cost around 50p to £1 to make are being sold in Shops for up to £50 per item.
Also, Small bottles of water costing £4 per bottle sold at Disney World Florida.

Perhaps only in modern Western society could the price of top brand clothing and bottled water be taken as confirmation of the Apocalypse.

In international aid, these are what are referred to as, "First World Problems," meaning, "problems so utterly trivial that they could only even look like problems in the context of a society of ridiculous prosperity."

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:51 am What are the implications of what religion deems the fall of man...
History tells us all cultures have their sell-by date. Do political strife, crippling inequality and climate change mean the West’s time is now up

In theology, the "Fall of Man" refers to something in the first days, Apocalypse, Tribulation, or the collapse of civilization, to the last days. It's a good idea to keep them distinct. They don't refer to the same idea.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:35 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:51 am What are the implications of what religion deems the fall of man...
History tells us all cultures have their sell-by date. Do political strife, crippling inequality and climate change mean the West’s time is now up

In theology, the "Fall of Man" refers to something in the first days, Apocalypse, Tribulation, or the collapse of civilization, to the last days. It's a good idea to keep them distinct. They don't refer to the same idea.

Maybe God is desiring to pull the plug on this current dream. He being the creator and destroyer of his own kingdom.
In the fall, man became a beggar and a thief in his own kingdom. Unless he wakes up to his all abundant divinity there is no hope or future except extinction.

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
God could be wanting a rest from this current dream. He may well be turning in for a big sleep, that is until we meet again.

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Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:30 pm Perhaps only in modern Western society could the price of top brand clothing and bottled water be taken as confirmation of the Apocalypse.

Only crazy mad insane people live only for profit and money. It's the sign of the times, the apocalypse is coming because it's not a natural way to be, it's destructive, anything born of ego ( what's in this for me mentality ) will be destructive.

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:52 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:35 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:51 am What are the implications of what religion deems the fall of man...
History tells us all cultures have their sell-by date. Do political strife, crippling inequality and climate change mean the West’s time is now up

In theology, the "Fall of Man" refers to something in the first days, Apocalypse, Tribulation, or the collapse of civilization, to the last days. It's a good idea to keep them distinct. They don't refer to the same idea.

Maybe God is desiring to pull the plug on this current dream. He being the creator and destroyer of his own kingdom.
In the fall, man became a beggar and a thief in his own kingdom. Unless he wakes up to his all abundant divinity there is no hope or future except extinction.

I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.
God could be wanting a rest from this current dream. He may well be turning in for a big sleep, that is until we meet again.

.

Dreams, creator, destroyer?? By the way you describe it all this nervous energy suggests God needs a good screw. Time for some good ol fashioned virgin sacrifices.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:51 am What are the implications of what religion deems the fall of man.

What does the fall of man actually mean in relgious terminology?

Is Western civilisation on the brink of a social and economic collapse ?

Today, I read a news article that most high street shops were slashing their top branded clothing prices by 90%. Why because>
The world is finally waking up to the nonsense that is high street fashion. When in reality items of clothing that only cost around 50p to £1 to make are being sold in Shops for up to £50 per item.
Also, Small bottles of water costing £4 per bottle sold at Disney World Florida.

Those examples are just 2 of the many more examples that is the madness of being human.

.

History tells us all cultures have their sell-by date. Do political strife, crippling inequality and climate change mean the West’s time is now up - Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... z628PZaPS4

.

Western culture is grounded on materialism, materialism is a continual process of entropy thus you are what you pay mind too and western culture is grounded in a analytic atomist mentality from the post middle ages/enlightenment.

Western progress is rooted in an absence of balance. We can see this in everyday life where everyone is always talking about "balance". You don't talk about "air" unless there is some problem in the air.

An absence of balance as an absence of wholism (interiorly and exteriorly). A simple example is a point as a center to all existence (represented by a circle). Divide the point and now you have two circles thus an imbalance. Divide the point again and you have a third center circle and a balance again occurs.

We can see with excess of spirituality comes a fall into materialism with the middle ages.

With the excesses of materialism comes a fall from spirituality.

With the fall of spirituality into materialism comes a rise of spirituality but in a more fragmented form (way for religious beliefs, sexual orientations (sexuality rooted in the Latin word for "halve" is linked to spirituality as a union with the divine), etc.).

This will alternate to a hyper materialism again where spirituality and technology will be so interlinked that a corporate religion will occur behind the scenes. It will market freedom of expression and give the appearance of free will.

People will be so overstimulated that they will burn out young and be "too tired to want to live". Euthanasia will be common and voted as a good (even though its roots are evil). This tiredness will be further rooted in a mass schizophrenia where everyone attention is divided everywhere, you are what you focus on and when focus is divided so is the person.

Thus one day it will become so dark people will say to themselves "we found our peace". This peace will be a state of catharsis and unnatural. People will have no empathy because empathy requires the ability to reflect and put yourself in someone else's shoes....but no people won't be able to reflect due to not just distractions everywhere but because everything will be on a screen and people will not be able to "imagine" anymore...they will not be able to produce an "image".

When everything has reached this state of darkness, people will have what they want but will lose all hope. They won't know what to do because they will realize what they have is empty, except they will not be able to comprehend this....they will not know what is wrong, just that something is intrinsically wrong.

Then people will start spontaneously praying and Divinity will reappear to restore balance.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:01 am
By the way you describe it all this nervous energy suggests God needs a good screw.

Nah! that's just another pointless addiction, another hopeless dependancy, another energy force that just begs for freedom.
The normal persons field of understanding does not go beyond his own body.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 12:01 amTime for some good ol fashioned virgin sacrifices.

Nah! because if you understood the nondual teachings of christ you would already know there never was, is, or ever will be, a sacrifice.

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Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 1:48 am
An absence of balance as an absence of wholism (interiorly and exteriorly). A simple example is a point as a center to all existence (represented by a circle). Divide the point and now you have two circles thus an imbalance. Divide the point again and you have a third center circle and a balance again occurs.

We can see with excess of spirituality comes a fall into materialism with the middle ages.

With the excesses of materialism comes a fall from spirituality.

With the fall of spirituality into materialism comes a rise of spirituality but in a more fragmented form (way for religious beliefs, sexual orientations (sexuality rooted in the Latin word for "halve" is linked to spirituality as a union with the divine), etc.).

This will alternate to a hyper materialism again where spirituality and technology will be so interlinked that a corporate religion will occur behind the scenes. It will market freedom of expression and give the appearance of free will.

People will be so overstimulated that they will burn out young and be "too tired to want to live". Euthanasia will be common and voted as a good (even though its roots are evil). This tiredness will be further rooted in a mass schizophrenia where everyone attention is divided everywhere, you are what you focus on and when focus is divided so is the person.

Thus one day it will become so dark people will say to themselves "we found our peace". This peace will be a state of catharsis and unnatural. People will have no empathy because empathy requires the ability to reflect and put yourself in someone else's shoes....but no people won't be able to reflect due to not just distractions everywhere but because everything will be on a screen and people will not be able to "imagine" anymore...they will not be able to produce an "image".

When everything has reached this state of darkness, people will have what they want but will lose all hope. They won't know what to do because they will realize what they have is empty, except they will not be able to comprehend this....they will not know what is wrong, just that something is intrinsically wrong.

Then people will start spontaneously praying and Divinity will reappear to restore balance.

I agree with your comments so thanks for your contribution.

There are many of us who have a glimpse of what is coming, and it is becoming increasingly clear that humanity must unite under the cosmological constant [God] and move forward unified in diversity. Unity is humanities future and unfortunately our current systems have ignored this and betrayed us over a long period of time and the coming catastrophe is now inevitable. Our materialistic none spiritual approach to this existence is about to reap what it has sown.
The so called progressives have failed so far, they get nowhere except to make things worse.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:52 am Maybe God is desiring to pull the plug on this current dream. He being the creator and destroyer of his own kingdom.

Creator? Yes. Destroyer? No. The human race appears to be leading in that effort.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:54 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:52 am Maybe God is desiring to pull the plug on this current dream. He being the creator and destroyer of his own kingdom.

Creator? Yes. Destroyer? No. The human race appears to be leading in that effort.

Ok IC, first of all, I do get what you are saying...but this is how I see it...as follows >

Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. The devil has sinned from the beginning (1 John 3:8).

IC: If God is the creator of everything, then God also created the 'fallen angel' who's intent is to destroy. Intent being the rider of the will. Since God is the uncreated creator then Advaita Vedanta is right on when it states duality is a dream within God's infinite mind.

In the dream of opposites creation could not be known without relating it to it's opposite.
Creation can be thought of as TO BE ..and destruction can be thought as TO NOT BE

I understand life is about balance and that the default position is this EVER RESTING LIGHT of neurality...AKA GOD
However, within the dream of separation the dream of being in relationship, there is both creation and destruction.

There is a problem with 'known beginnings' or 'known original's' that can never be explained, for unknowables are forever unexplained, there is nothing original so to speak, all is GOD...simply because all that is known exists only within the dream of separation which I call the acquisition of knowledge, the word of GOD

Humans are known to be hybrids of the divine God and is why we are made in God's image...which is goodness, but in order to know goodness we had to know what is not good.

It can also be said that God destroys purposely just to save himself from destruction. In the sense destruction is a positive thing, in the sense there cannot be life without death and vice versa. In the dream of separation dying before you die physically is being born again into eternal life for no ego, when the sense of separation evaporates forever...so for me, that's another form of destruction, destroying oneself to save oneself so to speak.

In other words, the concepts creation / destruction are knowledge within the dream. Concepts are not real,because the real world lies beyond the duality of the conceptual dream.


''During the Church Age God has been at peace with the world, due to the cross (Colossians 1:19-20). But after the Church is gone He will once again destroy the world in preparation for the establishment of His coming Kingdom (Jeremiah 30:11, Matt. 24:21-22). And at the end of the Millennium he will destroy the world one final time to prepare it for eternity (Rev. 20:7-10).''

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:02 am

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:54 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:52 am Maybe God is desiring to pull the plug on this current dream. He being the creator and destroyer of his own kingdom.

Creator? Yes. Destroyer? No. The human race appears to be leading in that effort.

Ok IC, first of all, I do get what you are saying...but this is how I see it...as follows >

Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. The devil has sinned from the beginning (1 John 3:8).

IC: If God is the creator of everything, then God also created the 'fallen angel' who's intent is to destroy. Intent being the rider of the will. Since God is the uncreated creator then Advaita Vedanta is right on when it states duality is a dream within God's infinite mind.

In the dream of opposites creation could not be known without relating it to it's opposite.
Creation can be thought of as TO BE ..and destruction can be thought as TO NOT BE

I understand life is about balance and that the default position is this EVER RESTING LIGHT of neurality...AKA GOD
However, within the dream of separation the dream of being in relationship, there is both creation and destruction.

There is a problem with 'known beginnings' or 'known original's' that can never be explained, for unknowables are forever unexplained, there is nothing original so to speak, all is GOD...simply because all that is known exists only within the dream of separation which I call the acquisition of knowledge, the word of GOD

Humans are known to be hybrids of the divine God and is why we are made in God's image...which is goodness, but in order to know goodness we had to know what is not good.

It can also be said that God destroys purposely just to save himself from destruction. In the sense destruction is a positive thing, in the sense there cannot be life without death and vice versa. In the dream of separation dying before you die physically is being born again into eternal life for no ego, when the sense of separation evaporates forever...so for me, that's another form of destruction, destroying oneself to save oneself so to speak.

In other words, the concepts creation / destruction are knowledge within the dream. Concepts are not real,because the real world lies beyond the duality of the conceptual dream.


''During the Church Age God has been at peace with the world, due to the cross (Colossians 1:19-20). But after the Church is gone He will once again destroy the world in preparation for the establishment of His coming Kingdom (Jeremiah 30:11, Matt. 24:21-22). And at the end of the Millennium he will destroy the world one final time to prepare it for eternity (Rev. 20:7-10).''

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Noone reigns in hell because someone is always above someone else...it is relativity on steroids where even the self is at war.

Destruction is irrenconcilable tensions as the playing out of illusion. It is the holding onto of illusion that tears then soul apart.

The soul as the image of the creator, thus acts as it's own judgement as it is unable to reconcile with it's own nature through God.

Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:14 am
Noone reigns in hell because someone is always above someone else...it is relativity on steroids where even the self is at war.

Destruction is irrenconcilable tensions as the playing out of illusion. It is the holding onto of illusion that tears then soul apart.

The soul as the image of the creator, thus acts as it's own judgement as it is unable to reconcile with it's own nature through God.

I agree, and very well said, thanks.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:51 am What are the implications of what religion deems the fall of man.

What does the fall of man actually mean in relgious terminology?

Is Western civilisation on the brink of a social and economic collapse ?

Today, I read a news article that most high street shops were slashing their top branded clothing prices by 90%. Why because>
The world is finally waking up to the nonsense that is high street fashion. When in reality items of clothing that only cost around 50p to £1 to make are being sold in Shops for up to £50 per item.
Also, Small bottles of water costing £4 per bottle sold at Disney World Florida.

Those examples are just 2 of the many more examples that is the madness of being human.

.

History tells us all cultures have their sell-by date. Do political strife, crippling inequality and climate change mean the West’s time is now up - Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... z628PZaPS4

.

There is no fall of man, mankind is in a constant state of transformation where they throw out old concepts that do not work, and adopt new ones that are a better fit.

The concept of "fall of man" was created to stop progress and freeze man in a certain spot, e.g. if you like making money and have a nice car, people will say you have fallen into the materialist trap and have disconnected yourself from the "true self".

Thus, religions can use the concept of "fall of man" to induce fear of change, and prevent a human from achieving a superior state of enlightenment. From a religious perspective, you can say the "fall of man" has arrived when people stop going to church, ignore God, stop praying and do everything else the Bible forbids.

However, what if this modern version of mankind, with all it's blamed attachment to materialism, is the superior and enlightened one? It is very hard to argue it isn't: modern mankind has the highest quality of life, vast access to information that many people actually take advantage off, far higher education and literacy rates etc.

Is Western civilisation on the brink of a social and economic collapse ? NO. Western civ has gone through many, many, many brutal challenges: mongol invasions, plagues that wiped out most of Europe, world wars, economic crises and it has still powered on.

Ironically, the most peaceful and prosperous time in Western civilization has come just when we started to renounce God. In the past 60-70 years, atheism has strongly taken root, major conflicts have dissapeared, plagues do not exist.

Who knows, maybe if the Byzantine Empire stopped believing in God, then the plagues wouldn't have happened. If Europe hadn't believed in God in the 13th Century, perhaps the Mongols wouldn't have come.