Philosophy Now Forum

waechter418 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:05 pm One cannot change oneself – but one can realize oneself.
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Atla wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:36 pm

waechter418 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:05 pm One cannot change oneself – but one can realize oneself.
...

You can realize yourself and still totally rewire your thinking (change yourself). These are different issues.
Realizing yourself is quite the change too actually.

Atla wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 4:36 pm

waechter418 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:05 pm One cannot change oneself – but one can realize oneself.
...

You can realize yourself and still totally rewire your thinking (change yourself). These are different issues.
Realizing yourself is quite the change too actually.

waechter418 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:05 pm There are more perverse ways of self-denial, like the Judaic/Christian concept of Homo being the crown of a creation whose aim it is, that he subjugates its manifestations – and thus himself

waechter418 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:05 pm One cannot change oneself – but one can realize oneself.

The notion of changing oneself is self-denial and most common in Dualism, because of its presumption, that the viewpoints which relate its manifestations, are having different time/space positions. A misconception that leads – due to the counter-dynamics of the (dualistic) R/P fields* – to the assumption that one could be different than one is, and that one state of existence is imperfect and another better – or at least: more advantageous.

There are more perverse ways of self-denial, like the Judaic/Christian concept of Homo being the crown of a creation whose aim it is, that he subjugates its manifestations – and thus himself.

Another currently popular self-denial is the Occidental evolution- and selection dogma; despite that it should lead, according to its own logic, to the realization that every man & woman is what he/she projects/reflects and that therefore no one can be elevated or put down, improve, worsen or otherwise be changed.

The in every R/P system* common (because most simple) manner of self-denial, is the causality concept, according to which a manifestation is either the cause, or the effect of another manifestation. A notion that not only undermines the self-response-ability of Homo, but makes him to a victim as well, even more so, when he tries to find causes for his existence and begins to reason it – and thus himself.

* see "Another view of Consciousness"

waechter418 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:05 pm One cannot change oneself – but one can realize oneself.

waechter418 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:05 pm The notion of changing oneself is self-denial and most common in Dualism, because of its presumption, that the viewpoints which relate its manifestations, are having different time/space positions. A misconception that leads – due to the counter-dynamics of the (dualistic) R/P fields* – to the assumption that one could be different than one is, and that one state of existence is imperfect and another better – or at least: more advantageous.

There are more perverse ways of self-denial, like the Judaic/Christian concept of Homo being the crown of a creation whose aim it is, that he subjugates its manifestations – and thus himself.

Another currently popular self-denial is the Occidental evolution- and selection dogma; despite that it should lead, according to its own logic, to the realization that every man & woman is what he/she projects/reflects and that therefore no one can be elevated or put down, improve, worsen or otherwise be changed.

The in every R/P system* common (because most simple) manner of self-denial, is the causality concept, according to which a manifestation is either the cause, or the effect of another manifestation. A notion that not only undermines the self-response-ability of Homo, but makes him to a victim as well, even more so, when he tries to find causes for his existence and begins to reason it – and thus himself.

* see "Another view of Consciousness"

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:05 pm

waechter418 wrote: ↑Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:05 pm There are more perverse ways of self-denial, like the Judaic/Christian concept of Homo being the crown of a creation whose aim it is, that he subjugates its manifestations – and thus himself

This isn't what Judaism or Christianity thinks. Neither holds that the purpose of human influence over the natural world is "subjugation," and neither holds that it is a means ("and thus," you say) by which the self is "subjugated" either.

An interesting thing about the self, though. He's a bit of a tyrant. He wants to be pleased now, in the ways he expects, on his own terms. He knows neither love of the world nor love of the neighbour, unless his own interests are met thereby. Yet it's not by accident that we have come to speak of bad people as "selfish" or "self-interested," or "self-satisfied." There's something very morally dubious and socially toxic about the person whose horizon is so low that he/she can see no more than the self. We don't want to be around him, and we don't trust or admire him.

If "self" realization is such an excellent thing, why would that be so?

Age wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:14 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:05 pm If "self" realization is such an excellent thing, why would that be so?

Because of what thy True Self actually IS.

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:39 pm

Age wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 1:14 pm

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:05 pm If "self" realization is such an excellent thing, why would that be so?

Because of what thy True Self actually IS.

But is that "True Self" an angel of light or a demon from Hell, or a confused mixture of the two?

Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:39 pm For anyone who thinks the "True Self" is all good, it gets a little hard to explain human history.