Philosophy Now Forum

In the end, you can't even know that you're nobody.

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:09 am In the end, you can't even know that you're nobody.

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But there is no end (and there is no beginning). There is only the HERE-NOW.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:41 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:09 am In the end, you can't even know that you're nobody.

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But there is no end (and there is no beginning). There is only the HERE-NOW.

In the end, you can't even know that.

In the end, is the end of knowledge.

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:45 pm

Age wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:41 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:09 am In the end, you can't even know that you're nobody.

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But there is no end (and there is no beginning). There is only the HERE-NOW.

In the end, you can't even know that.

In the end, is the end of knowledge.

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Wow. That there is no beginning and was no end was some thing I thought that you would agree with. (It really is better to NEVER assume any thing.)

Does a beginning and/or an end imply a dualistic view of things and not a nondualistic view of things, or have I got this wrong as well?

Are you now saying that there is not an always HERE-NOW, but instead that there is actually an end to ALL-OF-THIS?

Cyrano knows

-Imp

The eternal now means that there cannot be a beginning or and end to actual existence
And one is is simply an infinitesimal point in space and time that is just passing through

The infinite-eternal HERE-NOW also means that there is no 'space' nor 'time' either.
Everything is relative to the observer.

The infinite eternal HERE NOW is experienced at different points in space and time for all observers
So from their own perspective it is not the same even though it may be so from a truly absolute one
So anything that is objective can only be experienced by minds from a subjective frame of reference

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:20 pm The infinite eternal HERE NOW is experienced at different points in space and time for all observers

So, we agree?

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:20 pmSo from their own perspective it is not the same even though it may be so from a truly absolute one

'What' is not the same?

If 'it' is from their own perspective, then 'from their own experience' what is it not the same as?

If you are saying 'from one's own perspective' that it is not the same as 'from another's own perspective', then we agree, correct?

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:20 pmSo anything that is objective can only be experienced by minds from a subjective frame of reference

I do not agree.

How do you define 'objective'?

Age wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:03 pm
Wow. That there is no beginning and was no end was some thing I thought that you would agree with. (It really is better to NEVER assume any thing.)

Word and Mind cannot access the Absolute One. Knowledge is within the illusory dream of separation.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:03 pmDoes a beginning and/or an end imply a dualistic view of things and not a nondualistic view of things, or have I got this wrong as well?

There cannot be a nondualist view of things...which is a claim to know)

But there can be a dualistic view of something aka a knowledge claim made via the Mind and Word..which is known objectively as concepts within the dream of separation.
Yet..all objective knowledge claims are occuring within the Absolute Nondual Concious Knowing the only Knowing there is. There is no division between the knower , knowing and known , they are always THIS ONE NOW

Absolute knowing is nondual and makes no claim except in this conception which is dualistic, a fiction arising from not-a-thing knowing the only knowing there is absolutely.
ONE cannot know the Absolute. ONE is the Absolute that cannot be known for the known is the Absolute knowing.

Age wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:03 pmAre you now saying that there is not an always HERE-NOW, but instead that there is actually an end to ALL-OF-THIS?

Knowledge informs there is only THIS .. but it's not the knowledge that KNOWS...the knowledge is KNOWN ABSOLUTELY one with the knowing the only knowing there is.

The end of knowledge means the end of a known knower. It doesn't mean the end of THIS NOW that cannot be known because it is the absolute knowing.

One cannot know it is the Absolute One.
ONE is the Absolute One....knowing itself by ISing

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:02 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:03 pm
Wow. That there is no beginning and was no end was some thing I thought that you would agree with. (It really is better to NEVER assume any thing.)

Word and Mind cannot access the Absolute One. Knowledge is within the illusory dream of separation.

You are free to assume and believe any thing you want. But basing your beliefs and assumptions only on past experiences, and not on what is or could be possible, is not the wisest thing to do.

Once who and what the Absolute One IS is found out to be, then just how simply and easily the Absolute One can be accessed may come as quite a shock and surprise to some.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:02 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:03 pmDoes a beginning and/or an end imply a dualistic view of things and not a nondualistic view of things, or have I got this wrong as well?

There cannot be a nondualist view of things...which is a claim to know)

Why can there not be?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:02 amBut there can be a dualistic view of something aka a knowledge claim made via the Mind and Word..

What is this 'Mind' thing exactly, which 'you' mention?

And, what is this 'Word' with capital W?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:02 amwhich is known objectively as concepts within the dream of separation.

So, from the 'dream of separation', which 'you' say is just an illusion, this is where 'objectivity' comes from as concepts, is this correct?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:02 amYet..all objective knowledge claims are occuring within the Absolute Nondual Concious Knowing the only Knowing there is.

So, the ONLY Knowing there is, to 'you', cannot be a nondualist view of things, which is a claim to know?

Or, in other words, the only Knowing there is cannot have a claim to know?

Am I close, or still no?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:02 am There is no division between the knower , knowing and known , they are always THIS ONE NOW

I agree. I am just unclear as to why you believe that this Absolute One is not able to know, and does not have access to Mind and Word?

Some might argue that the Absolute One has complete and full access to Mind and Word, and that it is human beings who through their own actions of belief and wrong assuming that is preventing them from access to the Truly OPEN Mind, and Its Word.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:02 am Absolute knowing is nondual and makes no claim except in this conception which is dualistic, a fiction arising from not-a-thing knowing the only knowing there is absolutely.

Why does a 'you' try to make the claim that the Absolute KNOWING One, is not-a-thing?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:02 amONE cannot know the Absolute. ONE is the Absolute that cannot be known for the known is the Absolute knowing.

For a human being to claim that the Absolute One can not KNOW Its Self, is a pretty big claim.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:02 am

Age wrote: ↑Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:03 pmAre you now saying that there is not an always HERE-NOW, but instead that there is actually an end to ALL-OF-THIS?

Knowledge informs there is only THIS .. but it's not the knowledge that KNOWS...the knowledge is KNOWN ABSOLUTELY one with the knowing the only knowing there is.

The end of knowledge means the end of a known knower. It doesn't mean the end of THIS NOW that cannot be known because it is the absolute knowing.

One cannot know it is the Absolute One.
ONE is the Absolute One....knowing itself by ISing

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Just because you claim some thing like this, this does NOT mean that it is at all true.

'you' made the claim, 'In the end ...'.

So, is there an actual 'end'?

To me claiming 'In the end' is just the same as claiming 'In the beginning'.

If any one claims either or both, then are they able to actually back up their claim?

Age wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:04 am
You are free to assume and believe any thing you want. But basing your beliefs and assumptions only on past experiences, and not on what is or could be possible, is not the wisest thing to do.

Only past experiences can be known...there is no knower or experiencer in the immediacy of now. Having knowledge is a self referencing automatic feedback loop from self to itself only on demand for the knowledge which can only be found in memory past or projected future made NOW

Age wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:04 amOnce who and what the Absolute One IS is found out to be, then just how simply and easily the Absolute One can be accessed may come as quite a shock and surprise to some.

Yes I agree.

There cannot be a nondualist view of things...which is a claim to know)

Age wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:04 amWhy can there not be?

Why not can there not be?
There's simply no answer to why questions. Why questions are recursive. Questions can only appear within the dream of duality an illusion. No answers can be found to questions that exist only within the dream of separation where there isn't any.

Age wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:04 amWhat is this 'Mind' thing exactly, which 'you' mention?

And, what is this 'Word' with capital W?

These 'things' are thoughts known...aka knowledge.

Age wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:04 amSo, from the 'dream of separation', which 'you' say is just an illusion, this is where 'objectivity' comes from as concepts, is this correct?

The concepts are known yes, but not from the concepts themselves, the concepts are known by no concept.

Age wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:04 amSo, the ONLY Knowing there is, to 'you', cannot be a nondualist view of things, which is a claim to know?

Yes that's right, because any claim to know is a fiction. Knowing is always this immediate absolute not-knowing knowing now that you are. Claiming to know you are is the illusory sepration of the one you already are.

Life doesn't claim to know. A claim is just an illusory appearance of the unclaimed life living itself.
KNOWLEDGE just informs the illusory nature of reality.

Age wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:04 amOr, in other words, the only Knowing there is cannot have a claim to know?

The only knowing there is is consciousness. It it is not known what is consciousness except what is imagined and known by consciousness itself which cannot be known.. for it is already being the knowing of each concept as and when those concepts arise in it, known only to it only. You are IT

Age wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:04 amI agree. I am just unclear as to why you believe that this Absolute One is not able to know, and does not have access to Mind and Word?

I said ..Mind and Word doesn't have access to the Absolute One because the Absolute One is the only knowing there is ...Mind and Word don't exist separate from the Absolute One that cannot be approached or touched, because it's all there is, and any approaching or touching is also it.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:02 am Absolute knowing is nondual and makes no claim except in this conception which is dualistic, a fiction arising from not-a-thing knowing the only knowing there is absolutely.

Age wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:04 amFor a human being to claim that the Absolute One can not KNOW Its Self, is a pretty big claim.

The human being is a known concept, no concept can make a claim to know, that which is known know nothing, concepts are fictional appearances within absolute knowing the only knowing there is.

Age wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:04 am
If any one claims either or both, then are they able to actually back up their claim?

There is no one to back up any claim made because claims are false claims (appearances) that no one is making happen because NOW never happened except as an illusory dream no one is dreaming.

No need to back up a false claim no one is making. There's just the simple knowing that you are the knowing that cannot be known.

No one is to blame for making a claim, life never claims fame ..this knowledge is all within the dream of separation, the fictional story of I exist separate from you. . when it's all really YOU dreaming difference where there is none.

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:12 pm

Age wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:04 am
If any one claims either or both, then are they able to actually back up their claim?

There is no one to back up any claim made because claims are false claims (appearances) that no one is making happen because NOW never happened except as an illusory dream no one is dreaming.

No need to back up a false claim no one is making. There's just the simple knowing that you are the knowing that cannot be known.

No one is to blame for making a claim, life never claims fame ..this knowledge is all within the dream of separation, the fictional story of I exist separate from you. . when it's all really YOU dreaming difference where there is none.

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No need to back up a false claim no one is making.

Age wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:12 pm
No need to back up a false claim no one is making.

No thing is doing that,..

yet plop!

Here it is.