Philosophy Now Forum

We know on this forum there are many things being said and they will continue being said. Is there something being missed in the midst of all these opinions?

I must, before I die, find some way to say the essential thing that is in me, that I have never said yet – a thing that is not love or hate or pity or scorn, but the very breath of life, fierce and coming from very far away. Bringing into human life the vastness and the fearful passionless force of non-human things . . . Bertrand Russell, letter to Constance Malleson, 1918

Is there an essential thing in you that needs to come out but cannot? Is it possible or are we restricted to the domain of opinions. Can philosophy help us to allow it to come out or is it just another means for expressing opinions?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:38 pm We know on this forum there are many things being said and they will continue being said. Is there something being missed in the midst of all these opinions?

I must, before I die, find some way to say the essential thing that is in me, that I have never said yet – a thing that is not love or hate or pity or scorn, but the very breath of life, fierce and coming from very far away. Bringing into human life the vastness and the fearful passionless force of non-human things . . . Bertrand Russell, letter to Constance Malleson, 1918

Is there an essential thing in you that needs to come out but cannot?

In a sense Yes.

It does not need to come out but It would like to be listened to, and heard.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:38 pmIs it possible or are we restricted to the domain of opinions.

It is possible.

It does come out to and for the right people.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:38 pmCan philosophy help us to allow it to come out or is it just another means for expressing opinions?

That all depends on how you are defining the 'philosophy' word here. So, how do you define the word 'philosophy'here?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:38 pm

Is there an essential thing in you that needs to come out but cannot? Is it possible or are we restricted to the domain of opinions. Can philosophy help us to allow it to come out or is it just another means for expressing opinions?

Whatever comes out already exists anyway..else it wouldn’t be able to come out. The question is what is going to place restrictions on what already exists from coming out? And does it matter whether it comes out or not? What is there to restrict it?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:02 pm

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:38 pm

Is there an essential thing in you that needs to come out but cannot? Is it possible or are we restricted to the domain of opinions. Can philosophy help us to allow it to come out or is it just another means for expressing opinions?

Whatever comes out already exists anyway..else it wouldn’t be able to come out.

Obviously.

If you are asking the following questions looking for answers, then I will oblige. If, however, you are not seeking answers, then just disregard.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:02 pmThe question is what is going to place restrictions on what already exists from coming out?

The 'individual human being' or 'a person'.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:02 pmAnd does it matter whether it comes out or not?

When It does come out fully, then just how much It matters becomes known. For continued survival, then It coming out really does matter.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:02 pmWhat is there to restrict it?

In a word 'thoughts'.

Age wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:30 am

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:38 pm We know on this forum there are many things being said and they will continue being said. Is there something being missed in the midst of all these opinions?

I must, before I die, find some way to say the essential thing that is in me, that I have never said yet – a thing that is not love or hate or pity or scorn, but the very breath of life, fierce and coming from very far away. Bringing into human life the vastness and the fearful passionless force of non-human things . . . Bertrand Russell, letter to Constance Malleson, 1918

Is there an essential thing in you that needs to come out but cannot?

In a sense Yes.

It does not need to come out but It would like to be listened to, and heard.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:38 pmIs it possible or are we restricted to the domain of opinions.

It is possible.

It does come out to and for the right people.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:38 pmCan philosophy help us to allow it to come out or is it just another means for expressing opinions?

That all depends on how you are defining the 'philosophy' word here. So, how do you define the word 'philosophy'here?

Age

N. Is there an essential thing in you that needs to come out but cannot?

In a sense Yes.

It does not need to come out but It would like to be listened to, and heard.

But have you experienced it as distinct from opinions?

That all depends on how you are defining the 'philosophy' word here. So, how do you define the word 'philosophy'here?

I define it as Jacob Needleman does in his book the Heart of Philosophy:

……………………….The function of philosophy in human life is to help Man remember. It has no other task. And anything that calls itself philosophy which does not serve this function is simply not philosophy……………………………….

Philosophy IMO brings us closer to the great question raised by Russell through experiential remembering our connection to this great question even if we cannot express it.

DaM

Whatever comes out already exists anyway..else it wouldn’t be able to come out. The question is what is going to place restrictions on what already exists from coming out? And does it matter whether it comes out or not? What is there to restrict it?

As I understand it, this great question is experienced by higher conscious parts of our collective being. It is natural to try and bring it down into lower parts of our being so we can express it in our earthly life. The problem is that the fallen human condition has made connecting the higher with the lower impossible as we are. We feel the question but cannot express it.

Plato described our lower parts as a sick deformed horse. Our task is to heal our horse so it can receive from above which is of course easier said than done

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:47 am
Age

N. Is there an essential thing in you that needs to come out but cannot?

In a sense Yes.

It does not need to come out but It would like to be listened to, and heard.

But have you experienced it as distinct from opinions?

Yes

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:47 am

That all depends on how you are defining the 'philosophy' word here. So, how do you define the word 'philosophy'here?

I define it as Jacob Needleman does in his book the Heart of Philosophy:

……………………….The function of philosophy in human life is to help Man remember. It has no other task. And anything that calls itself philosophy which does not serve this function is simply not philosophy……………………………….

But if that is the function of 'philosophy', then what is 'philosophy' exactly?

If the function of some 'thing' in the life of a species is to help the male of that species to remember, then what exactly is that 'thing'?

Also, how could a 'thing', which its function is to help males to remember, help human beings to allow 'It' to come out of them or how could that 'thing' be just another means for expressing opinions?

If the function of a 'thing' is just to help to remember, then how could that 'thing' help in these other two ways?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:47 amPhilosophy IMO brings us closer to the great question raised by Russell through experiential remembering our connection to this great question even if we cannot express it.

I have no idea what you are alluding to here.

Because you have a definition opinion of and for the definition of the philosophy' word, then this, combined with expressing that, and other, opinions is the very reason why the 'It' is not able to come out of the 'you' freely and fully.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:57 am DaM

Whatever comes out already exists anyway..else it wouldn’t be able to come out. The question is what is going to place restrictions on what already exists from coming out? And does it matter whether it comes out or not? What is there to restrict it?

As I understand it, this great question is experienced by higher conscious parts of our collective being. It is natural to try and bring it down into lower parts of our being so we can express it in our earthly life.

It is more successful to go up into the higher parts, then the actual words of how 'It' can be expressed in "your" earthly life are seen.

The problem is that the fallen human condition has made connecting the higher with the lower impossible as we are.

This is true in one sense. But human beings are able to, and do, CHANGE. When they learn and know HOW to do that successfully, then the seemingly impossible becomes possible. Just how simple and easy it really is to connect is also learned and understood.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:57 am We feel the question but cannot express it.

That maybe the case for 'you', human beings.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:57 amPlato described our lower parts as a sick deformed horse. Our task is to heal our horse so it can receive from above which is of course easier said than done

I found it much easier to receive and relate to, then to say (and show) how it is done to those who do not want to get better and heal. A human being can not transform (evolve) into that, which human beings on a whole will eventually anyway, until they admit they are deformed and sick, are Honest and Open about it, and seriously Want to change, for the better.

Age

Nick_A wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:47 pm
Philosophy IMO brings us closer to the great question raised by Russell through experiential remembering our connection to this great question even if we cannot express it.

I have no idea what you are alluding to here.

Because you have a definition opinion of and for the definition of the philosophy' word, then this, combined with expressing that, and other, opinions is the very reason why the 'It' is not able to come out of the 'you' freely and fully.

It cannot come out of me since the lower parts of the human essence originate on the earth. Russell is suggesting a higher origin:

I must, before I die, find some way to say the essential thing that is in me, that I have never said yet – a thing that is not love or hate or pity or scorn, but the very breath of life, fierce and coming from very far away. Bringing into human life the vastness and the fearful passionless force of non-human things . . . Bertrand Russell, letter to Constance Malleson, 1918

Love, hate, pity, scorn, etc. all have their origin close to us at lower parts of our essence, motivate us, and create opinions. Russell is suggesting a different origin our lower parts cannot express: “– a thing that is not love or hate or pity or scorn, but the very breath of life, fierce and coming from very far away. Bringing into human life the vastness and the fearful passionless force of non-human things” . .

A remarkable and valuable observation. We can all try to express it and for those who feel it, can experience that we cannot express it. This proves to us that there is a higher reality which is the cause of what we do and are which we have no conception of yet we can feel it and consciously evolve closer to it.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:46 am Age

Nick_A wrote: ↑
Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:47 pm
Philosophy IMO brings us closer to the great question raised by Russell through experiential remembering our connection to this great question even if we cannot express it.

I have no idea what you are alluding to here.

Because you have a definition opinion of and for the definition of the philosophy' word, then this, combined with expressing that, and other, opinions is the very reason why the 'It' is not able to come out of the 'you' freely and fully.

It cannot come out of me since the lower parts of the human essence originate on the earth. Russell is suggesting a higher origin:

Who cares what a human being labelled is "suggesting". The higher origin is obvious and already known, by some.

Being on physical earth, itself, has no bearing on ones ability to allow IT to come out or not. What one does on this earth is what allows or not allows IT to come out.

The position in the Universe one finds them self is not what stops IT from coming out. What one thinks, says, and does is what stops IT from coming out.

The reason you, human beings, are yet to "find" IT is because you keep yourselves at the so called "lower parts", of existence. IT can not come out because of the very things you do. The way you think and the things you say. As I have already explained, you keep yourselves closed, and thus NOT open for IT to come out. You do this by assuming and believing, that you already know things. Expressing these things as "opinions" is keeping you firmly fixed on the lower parts of existence.

You even say, 'It cannot come out of you since the lower parts of the human essence originate on the earth', yet you go on to use russell's words, which state: 'I must, before I die, find some way to say the essential thing that is in me', which to me, obviously, implies that it happens here on earth, before one dies, and NOT somewhere else.

Your conclusion that IT can not come out of you because the lower parts of the human essence originate on the earth is not correct.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:46 am

I must, before I die, find some way to say the essential thing that is in me, that I have never said yet – a thing that is not love or hate or pity or scorn, but the very breath of life, fierce and coming from very far away. Bringing into human life the vastness and the fearful passionless force of non-human things . . . Bertrand Russell, letter to Constance Malleson, 1918

Love, hate, pity, scorn, etc. all have their origin close to us at lower parts of our essence, motivate us, and create opinions.
And it is those 'opinions', which is the very reason IT can not come out.

Russell is suggesting a different origin our lower parts cannot express: “– a thing that is not love or hate or pity or scorn, but the very breath of life, fierce and coming from very far away. Bringing into human life the vastness and the fearful passionless force of non-human things” . .

The origin that that one labelled "russell" is suggesting is easy to find, see, and know, that is; once you stop looking from the "lower parts" of existence and look from the 'higher parts' of existence. Looking from where IT ALL originates from allows the ability to see ALL.

The very words you and russell use, hint to where the origin is.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:46 amA remarkable and valuable observation.

Yes it was, and the very THING, which that observation is referring to, is very easy and simple to explain and understand.

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:46 amWe can all try to express it and for those who feel it, can experience that we cannot express it.

Once again, you are speaking from the 'opinions' of one. You assume and believe that that opinion is somehow true and correct.

Are you at all aware that JUST MAYBE it can be expressed, very simply and very easily?

Or is that just out of the realms of belief for you?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:46 amThis proves to us that there is a higher reality which is the cause of what we do and are which we have no conception of yet we can feel it and consciously evolve closer to it.

When you say and propose "we have NO conception of yet", are you speaking of and for 'you' only? Or, do you really believe that because 'you' have NO conception of it yet, then that must mean no one else does also?

Once you OPEN UP, get out of your belief, stop assuming, and stop expressing 'your' own opinion as though you know that it is true, right, and correct, THEN you are able to find or learn just what and where the so called "higher reality which is the cause of ALL things" actually IS.

If you just consider that JUST MAYBE there is some one who has already conceived of what this 'higher reality' actually IS, and if you are prepared to Truly LISTEN to see if they can actually explain it all, then you will remove yourself from the 'lower part' that you are on now and you might find yourself lifting up to level from where ALL True knowledge comes from.

You even say that there is proof for ITS existence, you can even feel IT, and that you are consciously evolving closer to IT, yet the very thing needed to let IT come out is the very that you do not do, that is; LISTENING.

Expressing 'opinions' is NOT listening.

The actual 'Essential Thing' can be and is summed up in just one word, which I have said numerous times, (although not yet in this thread), but the very act of 'expressing opinions', of what is believed or assumed to be true, is the very thing that stops human beings from HEARING and which keeps them on the 'lower parts' of existence, not allowing IT to come out.

To provide examples of just how closed up human beings are, which is what actually stops IT from coming out, just look at the writings throughout this forum. The lack of back and forth clarifying questions to each other shows just how little interest there is in what is said by each person. This NOT listening keeps IT within.

Only when one is Truly OPEN can IT come out.

Age wrote:
how closed up human beings are which is what actually stops IT from coming out just look at the writings throughout this forum
The lack of back and forth clarifying questions to each other shows just how little interest there is in what is said by each person

Not asking clarifying questions all the time is not necessarily evidence of a closed mind
I do not ask too many questions but I am not closed minded either but simply detached

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:42 am

Age wrote:
how closed up human beings are which is what actually stops IT from coming out just look at the writings throughout this forum
The lack of back and forth clarifying questions to each other shows just how little interest there is in what is said by each person

Not asking clarifying questions all the time is not necessarily evidence of a closed mind

That is true, because there is no such thing as a "closed mind".

Contrary to popular belief there is NO actual evidence anywhere for the mislabeled term "closed mind".

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 6:42 amI do not ask too many questions but I am not closed minded either but simply detached

Is being 'detached' another way of saying 'really having no or little interest'?

In order to be able to learn what another is saying and getting at, one has to have somewhat some enthusiasm and some curiosity, without these, people are simply detached from each other, and thus do not truly listen. So, really they have no or little interest in learning, more or anew.

Now to show that I am interested in learning I could ask you to clarify;

What do you mean by 'closed mind'?
How are 'you' not 'closed minded'?
Who/what is the 'you' and who/what is the 'I'?
And, How do all these things exactly relate to each other?

And wait patiently for clarifying answers.

And then, if I am still not completely clear, then I will ask more clarifying questions, until absolutely every thing that is trying to be expressed is fully understood.

Or,

I can say that I can, very simply and very easily, explain how all of these things, which actually give true meaning to living and being alive, actually relate to each other precisely. This is done with specific definitions, which when all of them are put together they form a perfect replica/illustration of the big picture.

And wait patiently for clarifying questions.

Either way: I await patiently.

Or, I can be simply detached, leave what you said completely alone, leaving you completely to be with and in those thoughts, and you never having to question or ponder over 'What did i actually mean by what i just said/expressed?'

(Also did you notice the 'trying to justify' behavior with the words, "I do not ask to many questions"? No person would consciously do any thing 'to much' nor 'to many times'. But if some one really WANTS to learn and/or understand, then there is no such thing as "to many" clarifying questions. It does not matter how many clarifying questions are asked, the number of clarifying questions asked in order to gain full clarity and/or full understanding is the correct number of questions, obviously. Unless of course "you" already know all the answers, so that if you are now asking clarifying questions for no purpose at all, then that would now be 'asking "to many" questions'.)

Age wrote:
Is being detached another way of saying really having no or little interest ?

It can be depending on the actual subject matter but I can also be detached even if the subject matter is interesting to me
I try to avoid becoming emotional in online discourse preferring a more logical approach instead as that is more productive
Detachment is nowadays a natural state of mind for me so that is going to be reflected in my interactions with others here
I do not feel the need to ask many clarifying questions because that involves too much effort and so instead I just let it be
For had I to answer every single question you asked of me I would be using up a lot of mental energy I would prefer not to

Age wrote: ↑Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:31 am
Not asking clarifying questions all the time is not necessarily evidence of a closed mind

You mean "on earth"?

Nick_A wrote: ↑Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:38 pm We know on this forum there are many things being said and they will continue being said. Is there something being missed in the midst of all these opinions? Is there an essential thing in you that needs to come out but cannot? Is it possible or are we restricted to the domain of opinions. Can philosophy help us to allow it to come out or is it just another means for expressing opinions?

I do not feel like I have anything that needs to come out that cannot. Rather, it would be nice if there was more recognition and acknowledgement between people in discussions, without the defensiveness and games and spin to protect the ego. Such are hopeless interactions, it seems, rather than expanding awareness.

I just ended a 7-month relationship because my boyfriend's "personal spin/story" was exhausting. Although he could hear and understand and WANT other ways of being, he locked himself into a pattern of ongoing aggravation -- his familiar/chosen story about life and the world. My "essential thing", I guess, is that there is truly nothing more important or natural than peace and love and joy. Intoxicated stories that disrupt that aren't worth taking on.

I've often wondered about people on this website who seem so locked into one story/platform or another... among countless options. Generally, my philosophy/way is to try to explore beyond what we think we know or what we think needs to be or IS -- while having fun doing it. For many people, however, philosophy is a much more serious business of taking up a position, and then defending that unyieldingly and inflexibly -- which, to me, seems so obviously convoluted and limited. I think what's more important than a person's philosophy is their ability to stretch beyond their own stories.

I think it's up to each of us to create our own experience of life, despite every intoxicating thing and person that pushes or pulls at us. We get to choose whether to be ruled by stories -- which is very liberating to realize.