Philosophy Now Forum

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... shae-jones

A pregnant women is jailed for having been shot so the fetus got killed... she didn't fire the gun, someone else committed the crime against her/the fetus. Yet, the woman is jailed.

That's Conservatism for you, right there!

Conservatives are monsters.

A somewhat more detailed story...

https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2019 ... issed.html

...illustrating that you're wrong, Phil.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:39 pm A somewhat more detailed story...

https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2019 ... issed.html

...illustrating that you're wrong, Phil.

Henry



This shooting incident brought mind some questions I would like to ask you re: Guns in the USA.


Your Second Amendment gives you (a US citizen) the right to possess and bear arms.


Does that mean that if I were a US citizen then I could travel to any one of the 50 states in America, walk into a gun shop and buy myself, say, a 9 mm Glock pistol, then put it in my pocket and legally walk around outside; like buy the gun, put it in my jacket pocket and then walk to the nearest McDonald's Restaurant , go in with my gun in my jacket and have lunch, and not be breaking any law ? I mean, suppose I am a US citizen and I travel to Little Rock, Arkansas or to Phoenix, Arizona or to any other US state capital city. If I went to Arkansas, could I go to a gun shop and buy myself a Glock pistol then put it in my pocket and walk out onto the streets of Little Rock legally. I mean, if a cop stopped me up and found I was carry the pistol , I wouldn't be in trouble; or if I was in New York City,say, w I be free to walk around town with a loaded Colt .45 in my trouser pocket wherever I liked without breaking the law?



I'm confused because despite the 2nd Amendment, which to me is worded in a very clear and straightforward way; i.e; ALL Americans DO have the RIGHT to POSSESS and BEAR (carry) firearms, FULL STOP; often when I've been watching American TV shows( like "COPS" ), I see situations where a guy is carrying a hand gun, or has a revolver in his car, and gets booked by a state cop for breaking the law. I know American TV dramas are not the most reliable sources of information, but they do tend to reflect reality in the case of little things, like cops charging some guy for illegally having a handgun in his car or jacket. I see this and I think : "Doesn't the guy have a Second Amendment right to possess/bear his gun" ?




Finally - (and sorry to bug you with all this, BTW, Henry, but you're the only clued-up American guy I know) - when it comes to bigger, more powerful firearms, like automatic/ semi-automatic rifles and sub-machine guns, weapons like: M-16 assault rifles; Uzis; AK-47s; Ruger 10/22 automatics, etc; is it true that you (i.e; a US citizen) are legally allowed to buy and own gear like this in the States? For example, in the state where you live, could you legally purchase something like, say, a Kalashnikov AK-47 assault rifle and ammo for it, and then take it home to use for defending you and your family? I mean could you just walk into a shop and buy an AK-47, in the same way you would buy a new computer or an iPhone or a bottle of Whiskey or a loaf of bread; that is, just as a simple, straightforward, no-questions-asked transaction ?




NB: Don't worry, I not a gun nut who wants to go on a shooting spree or anything like that, I'm just interested in how the 2nd Amendment works at street-level in America, and that's mainly because I'm interested in the political debate about the 2nd Amendment in your country. I know that the Democrats would repeal the 2nd Amendment, if ever they won office, though it seems to me that most (?) Americans are very protective of their 2nd Amendment rights. I find this curious, because most Americans I've met (I've only ever met white/European Americans BTW) are generally very polite, cheerful and friendly (talkative!) people and I wonder to myself why it is that the issue of owning guns - which, to me, are symbols of aggression, hate and deadly violence - is so very important to them ? I remember asking an American girl, a friend of my sister, who was holidaying in Australia if she had a gun at home in America - it was intended as a tease, because this girl was very demure and cute - totally sweet and "UN-gunlike". When she said yes, she had a gun (a pistol, it turned out) at home that she kept in her bedroom, it completely took me by surprise. I blurted out: "WHY, why would YOU have a gun !" She said, "Because the bad guys all have them and there's lots of bad guys in Chicago." That shut me up fast.




I live in Australia for half of each year and in England with my wife for the other half and man, let me tell you, if I (an average Joe) was caught by the police carrying or storing a pistol/revolver or rifle of ANY kind in Australia, I would be in BIG - and I do mean BIG - trouble. You could end up in prison very easily. The only way you can get a gun licence in OZ, is if you're a farmer who lives on the land and needs a firearm for culling pests or whatever, or, if your are in a registered gun club (which is just a place you go to practice target shooting as a sport). Basically you have to have some genuine police-approved, occupation/special reason for needing to own/possess/bear a firearm in Australia. Moreover, to get a licence, the amount of police department "red-tape" and personal history checks you have to go through is unbelievable. As for stuff like high-powered, semi-automatic or automatic/assault weapons you can just forget it - they're totally banned outright. England is the same, the average Englishman is not permitted to own any kind of firearm unless he has some legitimate, special reason for needing to own and use one.



Anyway, you have time to field some of my queries (above) about the 2nd Amendment, I'd be very grateful.





Kindest Regards


Dachshund

It's late for me, so I'll answer more fully tomorrow.

Till then, take a gander at this...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_law ... s_by_state

...I can't vouch for the accuracy, though.

Did you access the link?

I'm thinkin' most of what you wanna know can be found there.

In my state: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Louisiana

the prosecutors claim that the woman was attacked in self defense - they claim that the pregnant woman initiated deadly force

this may or may not be true

however - no one is saying that if a woman is attacked and that results in a miscarriage she is criminally liable

Only in USA! Compared to how advanced USA is, it's actually the least just country on earth! The system are riddled with moronic laws and pitfalls!

"The system are riddled with moronic laws and pitfalls!"

You ain't wrong.

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am
Your Second Amendment gives you (a US citizen) the right to possess and bear arms.

I'm confused because despite the 2nd Amendment, which to me is worded in a very clear and straightforward way; i.e; ALL Americans DO have the RIGHT to POSSESS and BEAR (carry) firearms, FULL STOP;

Now I am confused. You state that the second amendment, to you, is worded in a very clear and straightforward way, which you attempt to copy and repeat, but in doing so change it so it fits in with your own beliefs and assumptions.

How can it be worded in a very clear and straightforward way, yet you yourself change them into your own words, which are different and say some thing else?

Conservatism is the valuing of the Rule of Law.

for americans that means affirming and defending the US Cosntitution, and the court rulings relating to.

i affirm both, so that make me a Conservative!

though i am in fact a Liberal!

lol.

hopefully you can figure it out. "conservatives" today are the farthest thing from that.

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am
Your Second Amendment gives you (a US citizen) the right to possess and bear arms.

my 2nd only affirmed what was legal via common british law. in writing.

it is legal to own a gun in many nations - former brit one, britain itself, and outside of those nations.

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am Does that mean that if I were a US citizen then I could travel to any one of the 50 states in America, walk into a gun shop and buy myself, say, a 9 mm Glock pistol, then put it in my pocket and legally walk around outside; like buy the gun, put it in my jacket pocket and then walk to the nearest McDonald's Restaurant , go in with my gun in my jacket and have lunch, and not be breaking any law ? I mean, suppose I am a US citizen and I travel to Little Rock, Arkansas or to Phoenix, Arizona or to any other US state capital city. If I went to Arkansas, could I go to a gun shop and buy myself a Glock pistol then put it in my pocket and walk out onto the streets of Little Rock legally. I mean, if a cop stopped me up and found I was carry the pistol , I wouldn't be in trouble; or if I was in New York City,say, w I be free to walk around town with a loaded Colt .45 in my trouser pocket wherever I liked without breaking the law?

my undestanding as an american is that you can - if you are an american - buy a gun in any state as an american.

but as to "brandishing it" - not so. to branish your gun (for instance, in my State - Oklahoma - next month it will be legal to brandish it (open carry) - so you as a New Yorker could buy your gun in Arkansas (Arkansas is an Open Carry state BTW - I do not think NY is though) as a NYer and come here in my state next months and brandish your gun (not now - illegal, but in 4 weeks legal).

So yes as a US citizen (or even if you are a US resident - Guan/Marshal Islands/Porto Rico/etc.........you can buy a gun in any of the 50 states, but what you can do with it - depends upon the 50 (and the US territories local laws).

some state allow no carry, some allow concealed carry and some allow concealed and open carry.

so, lesson is learn the State Laws you intended to travel in before you show up in that state/territory with your gun Sir.

otherwise you will be fined for a violation (I doubt you will be arrested - though could be by letter of the local laws). more likely you will not be fined, but schooled as an alien visitor to the state

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am I'm confused because despite the 2nd Amendment, which to me is worded in a very clear and straightforward way; i.e; ALL Americans DO have the RIGHT to POSSESS and BEAR (carry) firearms, FULL STOP; often when I've been watching American TV shows( like "COPS" ), I see situations where a guy is carrying a hand gun, or has a revolver in his car, and gets booked by a state cop for breaking the law. I know American TV dramas are not the most reliable sources of information, but they do tend to reflect reality in the case of little things, like cops charging some guy for illegally having a handgun in his car or jacket. I see this and I think : "Doesn't the guy have a Second Amendment right to possess/bear his gun" ?

yep, its a matter of Federalism (State's Rights)- counter of belief if non-americans, though the US is a "unity" culturally and overall legally too.........it is not so in the abolute (You are a Brit? yes - Scotts and Welsh have their own laws though part of the UK) - its the same for our 50 states (and the 10 or so territories) - so if you violate the local law/s you are fined/jailed.


learn the laws of the local land before you travel to that land - even though you are an american and the land you travel to is also america..............laws still differ and yes we do still have State's Rights (a good thing IMO).

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am Finally - (and sorry to bug you with all this, BTW, Henry, but you're the only clued-up American guy I know) - when it comes to bigger, more powerful firearms, like automatic/ semi-automatic rifles and sub-machine guns, weapons like: M-16 assault rifles; Uzis; AK-47s; Ruger 10/22 automatics, etc; is it true that you (i.e; a US citizen) are legally allowed to buy and own gear like this in the States?

it is legal to buy a semi-auto ar-15 (AFAIK an uzis is an auto - and made AFTER the tommy gun and so illegal to buy in the US).

It is legal to own an machine gun (if you have paid the taxes for it since the 1930's - so you can have a legal tommy machine gun in america)

my understanding is:

1. that there are not many tommy guns around today so rare. (a hundred or so?)
2. that if you laps in the tax you forfiet legal ownership of machine gun.
3. here i ask others more educated than me on the matter (Henry?) - can a legal owner of a 30's ear machine gun sell it to other?

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am
For example, in the state where you live, could you legally purchase something like, say, a Kalashnikov AK-47 assault rifle and ammo for it, and then take it home to use for defending you and your family? I mean could you just walk into a shop and buy an AK-47, in the same way you would buy a new computer or an iPhone or a bottle of Whiskey or a loaf of bread; that is, just as a simple, straightforward, no-questions-asked transaction ?

I'm not a gun expert so not sure if an m-16 or ak-47 can be made into a semiautomatic (rather than automatic- machine gun). I assume both can and are offered for sale as semi autos.

if so.

then yep. you can walk into Walmart, or Academy Sports and just buy the thing.


I'm not Henry BTW, maybe Henry know more on the matter than me.

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am NB: Don't worry, I not a gun nut who wants to go on a shooting spree or anything like that,

good to know.

seriously.

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am I'm just interested in how the 2nd Amendment works at street-level in America, and that's mainly because I'm interested in the political debate about the 2nd Amendment in your country.

fair enough.

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am I know that the Democrats would repeal the 2nd Amendment, if ever they won office,

Bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

no one in there right mind thinks its possible to repeal an amendent.


the last one was the 20th with the 21st a century ago (only reason that happened was the 2oth was univerally unpopular for 12 yrs! - and unrealistic)

3/4's of State Legislatrues plus Senate vote to repeal!!!!!!!!!!!!!

bullshit sir. no dems with minds think the 2nd will ever be repealed - not gonna happen in this realm.



I'm not a dem - i was 30 yrs ago - but a reg independant, libertarian minded now - so no the concept of dems removing the 2nd is logisitcally impossible and just Faux "news" talking points with no merit to the reality of the hurtles of repeal of amendements to my constitution.


so stop talking bullshit.

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am though it seems to me that most (?) Americans are very protective of their 2nd Amendment rights. I find this curious, because most Americans I've met (I've only ever met white/European Americans BTW) are generally very polite, cheerful and friendly (talkative!) people and I wonder to myself why it is that the issue of owning guns - which, to me, are symbols of aggression, hate and deadly violence - is so very important to them ?

yes unlike those darkie americans.

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am I remember asking an American girl, a friend of my sister, who was holidaying in Australia if she had a gun at home in America - it was intended as a tease, because this girl was very demure and cute - totally sweet and "UN-gunlike". When she said yes, she had a gun (a pistol, it turned out) at home that she kept in her bedroom, it completely took me by surprise. I blurted out: "WHY, why would YOU have a gun !" She said, "Because the bad guys all have them and there's lots of bad guys in Chicago." That shut me up fast.

yes 40 percent of america (latino/african americans) is made of darkies, so one must have the gun ready to plug them.

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am I live in Australia for half of each year and in England with my wife for the other half and man, let me tell you, if I (an average Joe) was caught by the police carrying or storing a pistol/revolver or rifle of ANY kind in Australia, I would be in BIG - and I do mean BIG - trouble.

why so? if you are brit and a member of a gun club you can legally own a gun.

not the same in Australia?

clarify with facts.

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am You could end up in prison very easily. The only way you can get a gun licence in OZ, is if you're a farmer who lives on the land and needs a firearm for culling pests or whatever, or, if your are in a registered gun club (which is just a place you go to practice target shooting as a sport).

ok, thank for clarify my above - thanks for clarifying, your hysteria not withstanding.

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am Basically you have to have some genuine police-approved, occupation/special reason for needing to own/possess/bear a firearm in Australia.

yep, reasonable yes?

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am Moreover, to get a licence, the amount of police department "red-tape" and personal history checks you have to go through is unbelievable.

why unreasonable?

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am As for stuff like high-powered, semi-automatic or automatic/assault weapons you can just forget it - they're totally banned outright.

as they used to be in America for 15ys bet early 90's to 2008 or so.

they should be again. such weapons are for war not self defense.

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am England is the same, the average Englishman is not permitted to own any kind of firearm unless he has some legitimate, special reason for needing to own and use one.

reasonable requirement.

you can thank Hungerford(sp) - 80's nut for that the "new" requirements.

Dachshund wrote: ↑Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:59 am Anyway, you have time to field some of my queries (above) about the 2nd Amendment, I'd be very grateful.





Kindest Regards


Dachshund

you are welcome. not Henry - lol.

philosopher wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:17 pmConservatives are monsters.

I think people who intentionally misrepresent stories in order to stoke the flames of their political opposition, are monsters.

In fact, I would say these people are the worst type of 'monster,' because they're the monster that usually gets away with it; You know, hiding under this facade of moral superiority while actually doing something that is really, really bad for our society.

I've sort of developed a new rule for myself over the last 2 years living in our new post-truth media; If something seems too parodical to be true, it probably is.

philosopher wrote: ↑Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:17 pm https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... shae-jones

A pregnant women is jailed for having been shot so the fetus got killed... she didn't fire the gun, someone else committed the crime against her/the fetus. Yet, the woman is jailed.

That's Conservatism for you, right there!

Conservatives are monsters.

She is guilty of the crime of wearing a black skin in a Southern State.

If this were a white woman the shooter would be in gaol.

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:11 amIf this were a white woman the shooter would be in gaol.

If a black woman shot at another woman who happened to be white, you mean? Because the shooter was black, but I guess you think the privilege only works one way...

Sculptor wrote: ↑Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:15 amYou all know what a sick little kunt you are, and this version changes nothing.

The fact that the pregnant woman initiated the confrontation doesn't change anything?