Philosophy Now Forum

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:54 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Do you agree the fundamental of theism is psychological and not that there is already a pre existing God waiting to be believed

There is no need to create an imaginary [God &] heaven because the ending of all suffering that occurs after death is heaven anyway

Religion was invented to overcome the fear of death but you cannot be afraid of something you are never going to experience

That is only a self consolation but the truth is;

• Fear is always triggered upon threats that are likely to happen in the future.
  
  Fear is never about the past but always related to the future.
  
  What is feared may nor may not happen in reality.
  
  But death is certain to happen in the future thus the fear of death is inevitable consciously [10%] and subconsciously [90%].
  
  You may not feel it [fear of death] consciously at all times but YOU cannot escape it intermittently.
  
  While the conscious fear of death is suppressed, such a fear is always pulsating very strong at your subconscious level which represent 90% of your being.
  
  Thus religion was invented to soothe the subconscious [90%] fear of death.
  
  Therefore Theism and religion is purely psychological.

Any counter to the above?

The fear of death is totally irrational and can easily be overcome but the the real fear is of dying which unlike death is going to be experienced
But death itself is simply a transition from consciousness to non consciousness just as conception is a transition from non existence to existence
One therefore cannot experience fear before existence and equally so not after death only during life but only if one actually allows it to do so

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:59 am The fear of death is totally irrational and can easily be overcome but the the real fear is of dying which unlike death is going to be experienced

But death itself is simply a transition from consciousness to non consciousness just as conception is a transition from non existence to existence

One therefore cannot experience fear before existence and equally so not after death only during life but only if one actually allows it to do so

Are you saying the 'fear of snakes' is not the same as the fear of encountering a snake.
Note real fears are induced even when one imaging a snake or see an apparent snake from a rope.
The fear of death implied the fear of dying.
The fear of death is triggered by the thought or concept of death from the glaring empirical evidences of death.
Thus the fear of death is not irrational but objective.

The fear of death is irrational only when such a fact is deflected as your,
simply a transition from consciousness to non consciousness just as conception is a transition from non existence to existence

this is why theists conjure a God to promise an afterlife, eternal life, reincarnation, transmigration and the likes to soothe those terrible fears.

Note;
the natural inference of the certainty of death and the natural fear response is naturally suppressed evolutionary to avoid paralysis and paranoia. This is why the majority do not have a conscious fear of death but one cannot avoid it subconsciously.
Those who have a permanent conscious fear of death are actually mentally sick, i.e. Thanatophobia, thus need psychiatric treatment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_anx ... sychology)
This is why you are so confident you do not fear death or its implications.

However all humans cannot avoid the subconscious fear of death and how it manifest subliminally [oozing] into the various existential psychology and behaviors of the majority of people resulting mostly in theistic, religious elements and others.
My concern here is those theistic elements that results in terrible evil and violence committed upon innocent people and others.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Are you saying the fear of snakes is not the same as the fear of encountering a snake
Note real fears are induced even when one imaging a snake or see an apparent snake
The fear of death implied the fear of dyin
The fear of death is triggered by the thought or concept of death from the glaring empirical evidences of death
Thus the fear of death is not irrational but objective

All humans cannot avoid the subconscious fear of death and how it manifests subliminally into the various existential psychology

One can experience snakes but not death so the analogy between the two is invalid
The fear of death and the fear of dying are two separate fears not the same one
The fear of dying is entirely rational while the fear of death is entirely irrational

I have absolutely no fear of death subconscious or conscious so it can take me anytime as long as the transition is a painless one

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:21 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Are you saying the fear of snakes is not the same as the fear of encountering a snake
Note real fears are induced even when one imaging a snake or see an apparent snake
The fear of death implied the fear of dyin
The fear of death is triggered by the thought or concept of death from the glaring empirical evidences of death
Thus the fear of death is not irrational but objective

All humans cannot avoid the subconscious fear of death and how it manifests subliminally into the various existential psychology

One can experience snakes but not death so the analogy between the two is invalid
The fear of death and the fear of dying are two separate fears not the same one
The fear of dying is entirely rational while the fear of death is entirely irrational

I have absolutely no fear of death subconscious or conscious so it can take me anytime as long as the transition is a painless one

You missed my points.
The thought of snakes itself, i.e. not real snakes, can trigger fears.
Therefore the thought of death [real or not] should also trigger fears.
Whether is it rational or irrational, the fears are real which is what that matters and of concern.
Thus theist has to deal with this fear [regardless it is rational or irrational] resulting in the invention a God to deal with this fear [psychological].

My contention is we can replace this resolution of fear by non-theistic method instead of the theistic-God approaches which has a lot of negative baggage.

Note the 'thought of death' is more severe than the 'thought of dying'.
The thought of death is of something that is 100% certain [mortality] thus the intensity of fear is greater due to the 100% certainty.
The thought of dying mean one is not yet dead but still have chance of survival thus the intensity of fear is not a great as that which one has no chance at all.

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
The thought of snakes itself not real snakes can trigger fears
Therefore the thought of death [ real or not ] should also trigger fears
Whether is it rational or irrational the fears are real which is what that matters and of concern
Thus theist has to deal with this fear [ regardless it is rational or irrational ] resulting in the invention a God to deal with this fear [ psychological ]

we can replace this resolution of fear by non theistic method instead of the theistic God approaches which has a lot of negative baggage

Note the thought of death is more severe than the thought of dyin
The thought of death is of something that is 100 % certain [ mortality ] thus the intensity of fear is greater due to the 100 % certainty
The thought of dying mean one is not yet dead but still have chance of survival thus the intensity of fear is not a great as that which
one has no chance at all

Irrational fears can be overcome because there is no reason to be afraid of the thing in question
Theists can therefore still believe in their God without having an irrational fear of death as well

The thought of dying can be more severe than the thought of death or vice versa
Both dying and death are absolutely certain so are as equally likely as each other

Fear of dying can be greater than fear of death when one has a slow painful death and simply wants to die as quickly as possible

surreptitious57 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:57 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
The thought of snakes itself not real snakes can trigger fears
Therefore the thought of death [ real or not ] should also trigger fears
Whether is it rational or irrational the fears are real which is what that matters and of concern
Thus theist has to deal with this fear [ regardless it is rational or irrational ] resulting in the invention a God to deal with this fear [ psychological ]

we can replace this resolution of fear by non theistic method instead of the theistic God approaches which has a lot of negative baggage

Note the thought of death is more severe than the thought of dyin
The thought of death is of something that is 100 % certain [ mortality ] thus the intensity of fear is greater due to the 100 % certainty
The thought of dying mean one is not yet dead but still have chance of survival thus the intensity of fear is not a great as that which
one has no chance at all

Irrational fears can be overcome because there is no reason to be afraid of the thing in question

I can agree with that. This is common with phobias.

Theists can therefore still believe in their God without having an irrational fear of death as well

There is no link here.

The critical issue is the believe in an irrational God from a rational or irrational fear of death.

The thought of dying can be more severe than the thought of death or vice versa
Both dying and death are absolutely certain so are as equally likely as each other

Fear of dying can be greater than fear of death when one has a slow painful death and simply wants to die as quickly as possible

Nope the fear of dying is not absolute certain.
The fear of dying [prognosis by doctors] while one is informed of a terminal disease is not an absolute certainty. Many have survived against doctors' forecast.

Fear of dying [painful] can be greater than fear of death

Not in the ultimate sense and perspective.
When one is suddenly faced with near-certain death, the fear is so strong that one's whole life would flash across one's mind accompanied by all sort of mental reactions.