Philosophy Now Forum

• Major: All of Reality is Interdependent with the Human condition.
  Minor: The moon exists is reality
  Conclusion: The existence of the moon is interdependent with the human condition.
  
  Major: All of Reality is Interdependent with the Human condition.
  Minor: The moon pre-existed in reality
  Conclusion: The pre-existence of the moon is interdependent with the human condition.

FlashDangerpants wrote: ↑Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:21 am Your major premise is specious.

Atla wrote: ↑Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:18 am What do you really mean by interdependent?

In metaphysics, [Philosophical] Realism about a given object is the view that this object exists in reality independently of our conceptual scheme. In philosophical terms, these objects are ontologically independent of someone's conceptual scheme, perceptions, linguistic practices, beliefs, etc.

Realism can be applied to many philosophically interesting objects and phenomena: other minds, the past or the future, universals, mathematical entities (such as natural numbers), moral categories, the physical world, and thought.

Realism can also be a view about the nature of reality in general, where it claims that the world exists independent of the mind, as opposed to non-realist views (like some forms of skepticism and solipsism, which deny the existence of a mind-independent world). Philosophers who profess realism often claim that truth consists in a correspondence between cognitive representations and reality.[1]

Realists tend to believe that whatever we believe now is only an approximation of reality but that the accuracy and fullness of understanding can be improved.[2] In some contexts, realism is contrasted with idealism.
Today it [Philosophical Realism] is more usually contrasted with [Philosophical] anti-Realism, for example in the philosophy of science.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_realism

Atla wrote: ↑Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:14 am So what you're trying to say is: the human mind is part of, continuous with reality?

And what if I say this:

Major: All of Reality is Interdependent with the Human condition.
Minor: The Flying Spaghetti Monster exists is reality
Conclusion: The existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is interdependent with the human condition.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:56 am The issue is controversial; many scientists claim Science [classical] is Philosophical Realism not Philosophical anti-realism. However note the observer's effect, theory of relativity, and Wave Function Collapse where the observers is an integral part of the theory.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:29 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:56 am The issue is controversial; many scientists claim Science [classical] is Philosophical Realism not Philosophical anti-realism. However note the observer's effect, theory of relativity, and Wave Function Collapse where the observers is an integral part of the theory.

You seem to forget, VA, that there are two observers, and you identify the two as one, by one whopper of an equivocation fallacy.

Consensus theory holds that truth is whatever is agreed upon, or in some versions, might come to be agreed upon, by some specified group. Such a group might include all human beings, or a subset thereof consisting of more than one person.

Among the current advocates of consensus theory as a useful accounting of the concept of "truth" is the philosopher Jürgen Habermas.[26] Habermas maintains that truth is what would be agreed upon in an ideal speech situation.[27] Among the current strong critics of consensus theory is the philosopher Nicholas Rescher.[28]

In the Islamic tradition, this principle is exemplified by the hadith in which Muhammad states, "My community will never agree upon an error"

A fundamental problem in distributed computing and multi-agent systems is to achieve overall system reliability in the presence of a number of faulty processes. This often requires processes to agree on some data value that is needed during computation.

Paxos is a family of protocols for solving consensus in a network of unreliable processors (that is, processors that may fail). Consensus is the process of agreeing on one result among a group of participants. This problem becomes difficult when the participants or their communication medium may experience failures.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:24 am

Atla wrote: ↑Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:14 am So what you're trying to say is: the human mind is part of, continuous with reality?

And what if I say this:

Major: All of Reality is Interdependent with the Human condition.
Minor: The Flying Spaghetti Monster exists is reality
Conclusion: The existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is interdependent with the human condition.

The logic, Atla, in your argument, is solid. But for an argument to have a bite, that is, to be convincing and to be irrefutable, the logic must be free of errors (yours is), and the premises it takes as starting points must be true, which yours are not.

There is virtually no evidence of a Flying Spaghetti Monster. This negates the truth of one of your premises, therefore your argument is invalid, despite the logic it used was good.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:24 am There is virtually no evidence of a Flying Spaghetti Monster.

-1- wrote: ↑Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:24 am This negates the truth of one of your premises, therefore your argument is invalid, despite the logic it used was good.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:56 am If X is interdependent with Y, it means X and Y are not absolutely independent.

The issue is controversial; many scientists claim Science [classical] is Philosophical Realism not Philosophical anti-realism. However note the observer's effect, theory of relativity, and Wave Function Collapse where the observers is an integral part of the theory.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Mon Nov 26, 2018 3:29 pm That moon hangin' in the sky, it's gonna do that whether I see it or not. No mind, no observer, is neccessary for it to hang there. It, the moon, exists independent of me, you, him, her.