Philosophy Now Forum

Who are you? Nonduality
Paul Smit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBBP-pSIWvA

More videos from Paul Smit
http://www.a-dvaita.nl/paulsmitEN.htm

The above is an intellectual questioning to arrive at a conclusion there is no real you, no real me, no real person, etc.
But can this be a fact or an illusion?
To me that is rhetorical, an illusion and illusory based on immature philosophical thinking.

In addition to the above intellectual claim there are those who claim to have achieved and attain such a state non-dualism, where there is certainty of no-me, no-you, no-person, etc. e.g. as presented in the following thread;

Depersonalization & Derealization and No-Me.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=25224

Depersonalization is described as feeling disconnected or detached from one's self. Individuals experiencing depersonalization may report feeling as if they are an outside observer of their own thoughts or body, and often report feeling a loss of control over their thoughts or actions.[4]
In some cases, individuals may be unable to accept their reflection as their own, or they may have out-of-body experiences.[5]
-wiki

Any views on the above?

Veritas, all you're showing with this video is the Neti Neti method of self inquiry. Along with this method of self inquiry we can also use contemplation and first person experiences to discover who we really are.

Any idea that there is somehow a person or little homunculus inside your brain controlling things sounds stupid doesn't it?

Its all Source Energy and direct manifestation. You're actually manifesting directly right now.

Ramu wrote: ↑Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:43 pm Veritas, all you're showing with this video is the Neti Neti method of self inquiry. Along with this method of self inquiry we can also use contemplation and first person experiences to discover who we really are.

What the video demonstrate is the intellectual approach [Jnana Yoga] via inference. However such inference by reason do not prove the reality of it. It is only a theory.

Contemplation is generally not sufficient, what you claimed as contemplation is part of spiritual practices that include various meditation methods.
I am into meditation myself and I understand the mechanics of meditation.

Note the fact is whatever results from meditation and other spiritual practices are confined only to what is happening to mental, brain and body activities of the individual person.

There is no way, you can prove there is an Absolute [Source Energy] other than what is produce from your mental, brain and body activities as a first person subjective experience.

Any claim of an Absolute from a first person subjective experience is an illusion.
Note I have proven such a claim is an impossibility to be real. Those who claim the Absolute [aka God] exists is because of an internal supraliminal [subliminal] psychological desperation arising from the inherent existential crisis.

Rather that clinging to an Absolute which can cause more sufferings, it would be most pragmatic and rational to address the root cause, i.e. the existential crisis through various effective spiritual philosophy and practices, as propounded via Buddhism and others.

Any idea that there is somehow a person or little homunculus inside your brain controlling things sounds stupid doesn't it?

Where and when did I ever claim there is "a person or little homunculus inside your [my] brain controlling things sounds stupid doesn't it."
I have already argued and insisted countless times I do not agree there is a permanent self [homunculus] in me that survives physical death.
What I start with is justifiable empirical facts and from there make inferences that are empirical and possible.

Your problem is whilst you may also start with empirical facts, you over-extend the empirical facts and jump into an illusion of an Absolute thing, like below.

Its all Source Energy and direct manifestation. You're actually manifesting directly right now.

I have no problem if the source energy is E=MC2 which can be justifiable by Science.
However there is no such thing as a Source Energy that is Absolute [aka God] as propounded in the Vedas, advaita vedanta and other theistic beliefs.

All you are doing VA..is trying to objectify ''Absolute Source Energy'' aka Infinity.

Infinities never happen VA...Except in the imagined conceptual dream believed to be real by no thing, aka the mind.

In order to know a dream has occured, one has to be awake, this awakeness is all that is known absolutely...the dream was a fiction.

You are this actual awakeness right now deaming you are a man.

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:38 am All you are doing VA..is trying to objectify ''Absolute Source Energy'' aka Infinity.

Infinities never happen VA...Except in the imagined conceptual dream believed to be real by no thing, aka the mind.

In order to know a dream has occured, one has to be awake, this awakeness is all that is known absolutely...the dream was a fiction.

You are this actual awakeness right now deaming you are a man.

How can I objectify when I insist it is an illusion and unreal.

What I am claiming is, it is you and Ramu who are reifying [not objectifying] the absolute based on hasty conclusion from some first person experience.
Your [empirical] mind is deceiving you to reify an empty thought as something objectively real.
This like the child who reify Santa as a real person, a schizo reifying a real live gnome who can talk. These is the same as you denouncing the relative empirical you, i.e. no-me and reifying the Absolute as a real thing when that is a fake based on thoughts only.

Note objectification is totally different.
In objectifying something, the approach is via empirical facts and proofs.
Note how Science objectifies Gravity or energy based on facts and proofs.

A dream is a dream, why should I bother it is a fiction?
No ordinary person would conclude dreams are the real thing.
Such wrong thinking on your part is leading you to the wrong conclusion or 'no-me.'

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:03 amHow can I objectify when I insist it is an illusion and unreal.

You are the illusion objectifying itself.

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:07 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:03 amHow can I objectify when I insist it is an illusion and unreal.

You are the illusion objectifying itself.

That is your typical problem.
You [empirical] just don't have any proper argument to justify your claim.

Btw, why are using 'you' in the above when you insist there is 'no me'?

Note Jeff Foster admitted on hindsight he was faking it when he insisted "there is no you" when he was a pseudo-advaitin.
You are doing the same but is ignorant of what is really going inside your brain.

There are cases of killers and serial killers who kill others.
When caught they had declared;
"it is not me, but the absolute [whatever the name] that enabled the killing of the victims."

It is thus possible for you and people like you to claim there is 'no-me' to kill, rape and commit all sorts of evil acts.
When caught you and your likes can declare;
" it is not me since there is no me, but it is the Absolute [whatever the name] hat enabled spontaneously the killing of the victims"

True the same can be said of the good acts, but people like you are totally ignorant of the evil potentials from your sort of claims 'there is no me.'

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:26 am Btw, why are using 'you' in the above when you insist there is 'no me'?

There is no ''me'' in you.

YOU is this direct actual experience that is awakeness right now (unknown) prior to reflection...(the known)

The ''me'' is on reflection when (YOU) this actual direct immediate awakeness one without a second becomes aware of itself...as an artificially constructed conception of itself...aka as and through a reflected 'other' an illusion.


I just don't care what Jeff Foster said, or he said this, and she said that...I AM what I AM...everything else is a concept,a belief, imagination.

I've figured this out for myself. You can say what you want, its all concepts with absolutely no relevance whatsoever to what is actual and right here now directly.. minus inference.

Inference is an illusory ''appearance'' within this direct awakeness which is absolutely nothing and everything.

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Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:26 am but people like you are totally ignorant of the evil potentials from your sort of claims 'there is no me.'

You continue to believe there is a claimer, while I'm busting my guts to show you that 'thinking' is flawed. This is your illusion you are stuck in, not mine. Thoughts are not real, but manifest as real nonetheless as believed.

There is no claimer...that's the 'minds' sticking point ..this artificially constructed ''claimer'' needs to be dropped, by the one who created it, aka the mind.

Infinity means all that is infinitely possibly possible will be possible, and be directly actualised into manifestation via belief and conceptual construction... including people committing evil acts.That is the reality of infinity...

When everything is possible, evil is just another possibilty in infinite possibility..get over it already. Stop resisting which has got abolutely nothing to do with an imagined ''me''

But for the ego, the one who claims to exist separately is in the dream of separation, where opposites arise, and evil is just unacceptable in favor of its opposite, even though you cannot have one side of the story in favour of another, there is no good without bad, etc etc...

However, auspicious seeing knows ego to be an illusion, and there is no such thing as an ego except the illusory belief there is..and that's the problem right there, what is believed to be there will be real in the mind of the believer..and that what is believed to be real will either be rejected or favored. This is the illusory suffering the mind brings upon itself albeit illusory...for the ego is just an appearance within infinity, ego is just one infinite expressions of infinity which is just another concept for no thing being everything that is ever possible will be possible and will manifest according to belief..including evil intent, suffering and everything else that is this direct experience no thing aka infintity is having.

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:45 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:26 am Btw, why are using 'you' in the above when you insist there is 'no me'?

There is no ''me'' in you.

YOU is this direct actual experience that is awakeness right now (unknown) prior to reflection...(the known)

The ''me'' is on reflection when (YOU) this actual direct immediate awakeness one without a second becomes aware of itself...as an artificially constructed conception of itself...aka as and through a reflected 'other' an illusion.


I just don't care what Jeff Foster said, or he said this, and she said that...I AM what I AM...everything else is a concept,a belief, imagination.

Anyone normal person who read what Jeff Foster wrote will note the obvious similarity between what he was doing in the past and gave up is the same as what you [empirical] are touting here.
Both you and Jeff Foster is speaking of the same thing, the difference is you do not claim to be an advaitin specifically.

I've figured this out for myself. You can say what you want, its all concepts with absolutely no relevance whatsoever to what is actual and right here now directly.. minus inference.

Inference is an illusory ''appearance'' within this direct awakeness which is absolutely nothing and everything.

Note what is actual to you is only based on your own internal first person subjective experiences.

Your figuring out for yourself based on personal first person subjective experiences is no different from the schizo figuring out for him/herself albeit more crudely.

That "direct awakeness which is absolutely nothing and everything" is a fake.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:15 am
That "direct awakeness which is absolutely nothing and everything" is a fake.

There can be no knowledge of what fake is without relating fake to what is isn't.

You continue to be stuck inside a half baked pudding.

.

Drop all concepts, belieffs, and imagination about ''WHAT IS'' until all that's left is clear and true and real.

''What is'' clear and true and real...is without concept...as this direct actual experience that is life right now here, nowhere.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:05 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:26 am but people like you are totally ignorant of the evil potentials from your sort of claims 'there is no me.'

You continue to believe there is a claimer, while I'm busting my guts to show you that 'thinking' is flawed. This is your illusion you are stuck in, not mine. Thoughts are not real, but manifest as real nonetheless as believed.

There is no claimer...that's the 'minds' sticking point ..this artificially constructed ''claimer'' needs to be dropped, by the one who created it, aka the mind.

There is no claimer without a claimant.
As I have argued there is no knowing of a claimer without a knower.

Anything else is a fake.

Infinity means all that is infinitely possibly possible will be possible, and be directly actualised into manifestation via belief and conceptual construction... including people committing evil acts.That is the reality of infinity...

When everything is possible, evil is just another possibilty in infinite possibility..get over it already. Stop resisting which has got abolutely nothing to do with an imagined ''me''

But for the ego, the one who claims to exist separately is in the dream of separation, where opposites arise, and evil is just unacceptable in favor of its opposite, even though you cannot have one side of the story in favour of another, there is no good without bad, etc etc...

However, auspicious seeing knows ego to be an illusion, and there is no such thing as an ego except the illusory belief there is..and that's the problem right there, what is believed to be there will be real in the mind of the believer..and that what is believed to be real will either be rejected or favored. This is the illusory suffering the mind brings upon itself albeit illusory...for the ego is just an appearance within infinity, ego is just one infinite expressions of infinity which is just another concept for no thing being everything that is ever possible will be possible and will manifest according to belief..including evil intent, suffering and everything else that is this direct experience no thing aka infintity is having.

I had stated there is no absolute ego nor one that can survives physical death.

But 'auspicious seeing knows ego to be an illusion' need a seer and a knower which is happening in a living brain/mind and body.
There is nothing else that can be expressed other than what is within the above.
The discussion of an Absolute is an illusion driven by the psychological impulses within the living brain/mind and body.
This can be easily proven when those with mental illness make such a claim of the Absolute and get cured when given the right medicines and counselling.

Note this video re Neuroscientist Ramanchandran linking Temporal Epilepsy and God.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIiIsDIkDtg
where the boy with temporal epilepsy was medicated and psychologically counselled after claiming he was some sort of Absolute. Such experiences and claims are similar within a continuum like yours.
It may not be, but it is possible [based on evidence above] you could have had experienced some mild epileptic sessions then or even now?

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:20 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:15 am
That "direct awakeness which is absolutely nothing and everything" is a fake.

There can be no knowledge of what fake is without relating fake to what is isn't.

You continue to be stuck inside a half baked pudding.

Drop all concepts, beliefs, and imagination about ''WHAT IS'' until all that's left is clear and true and real.

''What is'' clear and true and real...is without concept...as this direct actual experience that is life right now here, nowhere.

Stuck??
Note I have researched on the above issue very extensively and deeply.
One very effective philosophy and epistemological approach is that of Kant.

Here is one fact;

1. All of our knowledge of reality [the known with a knower] is based on justifiable facts and knowledge which can be proven.
This is like standing on solid rocks with miles high cliffs.

2. Based on the above reality that is known objectively [via intersubjectivity], using reason and power of inference we can predict, extrapolate and speculate on the possibilities. I can predict there are human-liked aliens in some planets light years away somewhere in the Universe because while there is no evidence to justify their objectivity, all these elements are empirically possible.
This is like walking on a very solid plank embedded strongly onto the cliff. The further out one walk will reduce the degree of possibility but nevertheless it is still empirical possible.

3. Now, there is the situation where one insist there a reality but without relying on 1 and 2 above, i.e. not grounded on the empirical but on the transcendental. The Absolute [aka God] or whatever name you have churned out for it is without any empirical grounding.
When I stated is possible human-liked aliens exist in a planet light years away, this is grounded on empirical elements like human-liked, planet, light years.
But for one to claim an Absolute exists, there is no empirical elements to support it at all. In this case such is a fake, which is manifested from some psychological issues.
This is like jumping off the plank [leaping away from the known reality] into an unknown reality which is impossible.
Thus when doing this act, one will land one the ground miles below in a heap.



Here is what Kant said of Plato in a similar fashion;

Kant in CPR wrote:It was thus that Plato left the World of the Senses, as setting too narrow Limits to 2 the Understanding, and ventured out beyond it on the wings of the Ideas, in the empty Space of the Pure Understanding.

He [Plato] did not observe that with all his efforts he made no advance meeting no resistance that might, as it were, serve as a support upon which he could take a stand, to which he could apply his powers, and so set his Understanding in motion.

It is, indeed, the common fate of Human Reason to complete its Speculative Structures as speedily as may be, and only afterwards to enquire whether the foundations are reliable.

All sorts of excuses will then be appealed to, in order to reassure us of their solidity, or rather indeed 3 to enable us to dispense altogether with so late and so dangerous an enquiry.
[A5] [B9]

Thus that is what you are doing, i.e. finding all sorts of unjustifiable excuses to explain your fake claim.

Btw, if you are not aware, Kant is claimed by many to be the greatest Western Philosopher of all times.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:02 amHere is one fact;

1. All of our knowledge of reality [the known with a knower] is based on justifiable facts and knowledge which can be proven.
This is like standing on solid rocks with miles high cliffs.

Yes, but all this ''thinking'' are just beliefs, concepts and imagination appearances of infinity aka gods dream.

In reality..No ''thinker/philosophiser'' has knowledge. Everything aka Nothing IS knowledge..including the idea there is a ''thinker'' that has knowledge,or knows that knowledge ...In reality No separate thinker or thing knows knowledge..there is ONLY KNOWLEDGE which is an appearance within the dream of separation.

Knowledge informs the illusion of a separate knower, so nothing to prove here. Prove requires the presence of ''another'' ..there is no such other.

There is no one to be here or not be here except in the dream of separation, the world of conceptual opposites.

To know One ..one simply has to know one is not here in order to know one is here...but this is all belief, concept and imagination within the dream of opposites that exist in the same dream moment appearing within the same one absolute reality.

No one really knows one is being..one is simply being without knowing. (life and death is knowledge which is the dream of separation, an illusory appearance of infinity) In infinity there is no one to know life or death..except as imagined belief and concept.

There is no knowledge of not being here, and the knowledge of being here is a fictional story appearance within absolute infinity.

Therefore, Absolute reality is actual, direct experience of being, right here and now without beginning nor end add infinitum. All concepts, belief, imagination is couched in THAT, not outside living some independant separate existence which is just Gods aka infinities dream.

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:02 amBtw, if you are not aware, Kant is claimed by many to be the greatest Western Philosopher of all times.

Everything and Nothing is a philosopher. . as is with any other expression of all that is possibly possible actualised directly straight from the sources mouth, add infinitum.

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Kant may have been the greatest philospher, but even the greatest philosophers which are only and ever conceptualised imagined dreamt characters aka appearances of infinities dream ..eventually die as believed..yet are constantly re-newed, re-hashed, or re-placed with ever greater philosophers...albeit in the dream of separation of gods aka infinities dream.

All conceptual imagined dreams within dreams believed to be real add infinitum...

As soon as source energy speaks, the world of conceptual imagined believed to be real dreams manifest...aka illusions within the real.

The real is silent, the illusion is the conceptualisation of the silent.

Silence is this direct actual experience of BEINGNESS/ONENESS...which cannot be spoken about. Silence is God, anything spoken about... is Gods illusion. ..aka an expression, an illusory happening within infinity...that never happened.





Being totally silent right now is the only real reality...everything spoken about it, that is belief, imagination and concept.

...belief, imagination and concept has no effect on what is real reality, none whatsoever...real reality is infinity, ungrounded, unbounded, untouched, unborn, and unchanging...all appearances are illusions couched within this.

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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:07 am The real is silent, the illusion is the conceptualisation of the silent.

Silence is this direct actual experience of BEINGNESS/ONENESS...which cannot be spoken about. Silence is God, anything spoken about... is Gods illusion. ..aka an expression, an illusory happening within infinity...that never happened.

Silence is the absence of sound ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound ). But sound waves are just pressure variances.
Just because you cannot hear doesn't mean you cannot see, feel, taste, touch and smell.

Sounds are waves.
Light is a wave too.
Wave functions are the essence of quantum mechanics!

Of course - you don't care about falsification, and so no matter how many counter-examples I provide you with - you will still cling onto your broken ideology.