Philosophy Now Forum

President Trump Speech to the UN 25/9/18
His rampaging oration which no doubt left many delegates bemused no doubt proves one thing.
How difficult and even impossible it is to talk rationally in a world that is wedded to the idea of politics-ethics as a simple dimension between the Left and Right. His belief in nationalism and cooperation would fit better to a three way two dimensional politic, emphasising cooperation from the grass roots of society upwards

He starts to speak and my eyes roll back in my head. How in the world such an ignorant and unconscious person could be in such a role is just too BAD of a joke. It really seems like an insult to everyone who must sit and listen and pretend that it ISN'T a sham. He doesn't know what he's saying, and he cannot be trusted to follow through on anything. His scripts are written for him. It's clear what he foolishly writes for himself. Seems to me that there's no sense in listening to any of it, as it's either a charade or too stupid.

Perhaps one benefit is that this clown show has raised the consciousness of others. You know, the way humankind seems inclined to strive to NOT be as limited and primitive as those who've come before them. Trump has been a good example of some of the lowest potentials to propel away from. His actions have inspired (hopefully) an increase in public awareness and outrage of liars, empty-headed babblers, and bloated egos in general, and provided much opportunity for humor. We might as well have fun!

The world may be shifting significantly, hopefully for the better... and Trump is the poor clown in history (an evolutionary turning point perhaps) who will be ridiculed by most, yet may still be thought of affectionately by some, who will have "Donald the Clown" portraits (painted in garish colors) hanging in their home. Such a crazy and funny world.

1861

-Imp

I heard that speech.

As a non-American, my first impression of Trump [even before he is the President] is he is an ego-maniac, very narcissistic, has some degree of psychopathy and I would not like to be his friend at all.

However as a boss or employee of a company or institution, I would not judge a person's personality on first impression but rather on the person's accomplishments and productivity in line with the agreed objectives.

In the case of USA, the agreed objectives are defined in the US Constitution.
To make any judgments we always net off the pros with the cons and favor whatever is net-pros or the net positive.

To assess and judge Trump as President of the USA we need to list down all the acts he has to do and has done. We should also put weightages on the various objectives and results expected.

Taking into account the above in terms of economics, foreign affairs, social, well being of citizens of the USA, etc. I believed [based on a crude assessment] objectively Trump so far has done a good job as President of the USA, i.e. his results show a net-pros over the cons.

One of the element that is critical and carry heavy weightage to the USA and humanity is the infiltration of Islam into the White House. It is a very good thing Trump and the GOP has disinfected the White House of Islam and its potential evil ideology. I think the world would still be facing the evil of I.S.I.S if not for Trump and his strong will on the issue of Islamic evil.
It is not Trump per se that I would favor, but any leader or party who has the balls to face the evil elements from that 'religion of peace'.

I read of loads of anti-Trump propaganda but I believe this is due to the aggressive brainwashing by the irrational medias with any thing relating to Trump.
I believe and agree with those who explained the subjective irrational hate of Trump [rather than viewing it objective] is due to cognitive dissonance.

Note this where Scott Adams (Creator of Dilbert) explain the effects of a cognitive dissonance in a political scenario where Trump is involved;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_idhCca2XM

Veritas Aequitas wrote:... One of the element that is critical and carry heavy weightage to the USA and humanity is the infiltration of Islam into the White House. It is a very good thing Trump and the GOP has disinfected the White House of Islam and its potential evil ideology. I think the world would still be facing the evil of I.S.I.S if not for Trump and his strong will on the issue of Islamic evil.
It is not Trump per se that I would favor, but any leader or party who has the balls to face the evil elements from that 'religion of peace'.
...

Er!? You do understand that that ideology is tacitly promoted and supported by the Saudi institutions and that Trump is an ally of Saudi and Iran a foe of ISIS as ISIS see the Iranian Shias as heretics?

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:49 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:... One of the element that is critical and carry heavy weightage to the USA and humanity is the infiltration of Islam into the White House. It is a very good thing Trump and the GOP has disinfected the White House of Islam and its potential evil ideology. I think the world would still be facing the evil of I.S.I.S if not for Trump and his strong will on the issue of Islamic evil.
It is not Trump per se that I would favor, but any leader or party who has the balls to face the evil elements from that 'religion of peace'.
...

Er!? You do understand that that ideology is tacitly promoted and supported by the Saudi institutions and that Trump is an ally of Saudi and Iran a foe of ISIS as ISIS see the Iranian Shias as heretics?

So long as the $tar$ & $tripe$ keep the money flowing for their arms sales they barely give a flying rats arse who is on what side.

"anti-Trump propaganda...due to the aggressive brainwashing by the irrational medias with any thing relating to Trump. I believe and agree with those who explained the subjective irrational hate of Trump [rather than viewing it objective] is due to cognitive dissonance."

Yep. It ain't 'I disagree with Trump and here's why', it's 'I fuckin' HATE Trump and I don't care what he does'.

Me: I'm up for a good tussle most of the time, but not with the HATE crowd (not any more). No damn point (like beatin' your head against a [crazy] tree...you come away bloody and the tree don't care...best to just break out the chainsaw [or the free helicopter rides] from the start).

Lacewing wrote: ↑Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:59 pm He starts to speak and my eyes roll back in my head. How in the world such an ignorant and unconscious person could be in such a role is just too BAD of a joke. It really seems like an insult to everyone who must sit and listen and pretend that it ISN'T a sham. He doesn't know what he's saying, and he cannot be trusted to follow through on anything. His scripts are written for him. It's clear what he foolishly writes for himself. Seems to me that there's no sense in listening to any of it, as it's either a charade or too stupid.

Perhaps one benefit is that this clown show has raised the consciousness of others. You know, the way humankind seems inclined to strive to NOT be as limited and primitive as those who've come before them. Trump has been a good example of some of the lowest potentials to propel away from. His actions have inspired (hopefully) an increase in public awareness and outrage of liars, empty-headed babblers, and bloated egos in general, and provided much opportunity for humor. We might as well have fun!

The world may be shifting significantly, hopefully for the better... and Trump is the poor clown in history (an evolutionary turning point perhaps) who will be ridiculed by most, yet may still be thought of affectionately by some, who will have "Donald the Clown" portraits (painted in garish colors) hanging in their home. Such a crazy and funny world.

That’s quite surprising. Good stuff elsewhere followed with emotionalism that says nothing but the sighs of personal feelings.

The Objective View

An objective look at President Trump quickly reveals that he has sacrificed all that’s left of his time on earth to duty and responsibility. He is honestly doing what he can for the country, for the system of society that offered him so much opportunity (to again reference the sage), and that has rewarded his efforts.

This supreme altruism must be the higher philosophy that immunizes Trump on a daily basis from the ankle nippers who feign such shock and disappointment that one of the job requirements for the most powerful man in the world is actually a truckload of ego and the confidence to carry an enormous ration of responsibility.

Or maybe he simply likes the action and the challenge to test his ethics and reality-shaping skills on the biggest stage.

Trump knows the shallowness of his critics.
That hair of his is no accident.
He’s the dad who embarrasses his kids at the mall, and that’s about all people need to see for the purposes of following the bring-him-down script. Corrupt swamp calculations fill in details.
Trump plays in hyperbole, to the back row, because that’s the way of perception. Writers know the value of exaggerating charater to make it stick in the zeitgist.

Trump has to be unorthodox.
He has to be big on a big stage.
He’s practically a force of one, representing his country.

Equivocating intellectual poseurs get eaten up by despots, as Obama demonstrated on the world stage.

One good definition of intelligence is the capacity to adapt to one’s environment. The test of life and not standardized tests is how primitive geniuses are determined, and many would make the case that we live in savage times, so folks need a strong advocate.

“You have to be absolutely spectacular and transcendental or you ain’t gonna get a whole lotta bread.”
- Iceburg Slim

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:00 pm

The judgment is nigh. Will the corners rise, or fall?

Hopefully, some neurons other than defense and emotion will speak.

You know, like maybe rational assessment of causation other than what causes feelings?

Causation that has resulted in one of the most effective presidents, ever.

And all he to do was dial back the legal nonsense of the previous eight years, which has demonstrably driven many of his opponents insane, adrift without morality or purpose other than, No.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:33 pm Good stuff elsewhere followed with emotionalism that says nothing but the sighs of personal feelings.

Your intoxication prevents you from seeing beyond your own emotionalism.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:33 pmAn objective look at President Trump quickly reveals that he has sacrificed all that’s left of his time on earth to duty and responsibility.

He didn't even want to be President. I give him credit for not declining the results he didn't expect. It seems clear, however, that his ego more than honor has carried him forward.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:33 pmHe is honestly doing what he can for the country...

Okay, you're embellishing wayyyy too much to take seriously. How can you not see that this man is totally motivated by his own ego? He says what will make the selected crowds cheer, and then he does what he wants in any given moment. Most of his "actions" have been to sign his scribble to UNDO what his predecessor did -- something any monkey could do. That's not intelligent or visionary.

Why must you glorify him to such ridiculous extremes? Do you really believe the crap you say, or are you just trying to be contrary and opposing to feed your disruptive appetite?

I do feel sorry for him that he is under such attack. But you completely ignore there being any valid reasons for such attacks, when he clearly does so much to bring it on himself. He acts like an idiot. You also deny the insights and awareness of a huge number (and majority) of people all over the world. Still, Trump is your god and he's brilliantly playing all of us... right? Are you ever aware when YOU are getting played?

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:33 pmOr maybe he simply likes the action and the challenge to test his ethics and reality-shaping skills on the biggest stage.

Do you use this much denial and dishonesty in all areas of your life? Based on what you say on this forum, I think we know the answer.

He's effective in achieving his stated objectives, constitutionally.

End of story.

The rest is personal drama and denial.

henry quirk wrote: ↑Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:26 pm It ain't 'I disagree with Trump and here's why', it's 'I fuckin' HATE Trump and I don't care what he does'.

Plenty has been said on this forum about WHY people disagree with Trump.

You don't hear it because you're busy cramming things up your nose. (It must be huge.)

You would be nothing without guns and chainsaws.

That pretty much wraps it up.

Of equal relevance to the thread, corn or wheat wrap?

In many US news reports, Trump was portrayed as a buffoon with a single clip of the UN speech. He began by stating to the world his fantastic achievements as president, like he was on the campaign trail, and those in the UN laughed. Trump smiled back and said that wasn’t the reaction he was expecting. You could see it was genuine. He’s gauche, and he puts it out there.

To those with any sense of reality, such Opyness can be rather endearing. And Trump knows it.

When asked about this laughter, his mouthpiece said that his lack of diplomacy was being laughed at.

Obviously, he is not what people there are used to hearing. He is unabashed in his self-praise. In this way he is like T. Roosevelt, another simple man of huge energy. Another New Yorker.

The laughter was not derisive, as portrayed in the American press.

It was more of a delight at the breaking of protocol, and the simple drive of this fellow. The smoozing.

What do you think, other than harsh and uncharitable judgments of the other?

LW wrote: Still, Trump is your god and he's brilliantly playing all of us... right? Are you ever aware when YOU are getting played?

I think he's a simple man who has stepped up to the task and will give his all for the people. He's already given more than most still living.

Walker wrote: ↑Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:47 pm What do you think, other than harsh and uncharitable judgments of the other?

How would you answer that question about Obama?

I have acknowledged kindness toward Trump. I do not wish him ill. I think you're overselling him, and somewhat blinded in that quest.