Philosophy Now Forum

Religions are all about beliefs. However, there is no such believer.

Life is Non-dual, in every which way, shape, and form. Nondualism has absolutely nothing to do with belief.

When are we going to stop pussy footing around playing with stupid old worn out ideas about believers and non-believers, and actually develop and evolve into the buddhas we were born as, but have temporarily forgotten about, devolved away from.

Any discussion regarding the idea of religion is a waste of time, it puts one in a tail chasing scenario of arguing against an ''I'm right'', and another ''I'm right''. Great, what's the point in that, where is that going to lead, and what will that acheive?..why not just discuss what is really actually going on here. And move away from belief for good, and focus on the clarity that is blindingly staring us in the face, waiting for us to wake up.

__________

''The scientific evidence is beginning to show that we live in a holographic universe where everything is contained in everything else. From that perspective, there are no separate parts. There’s only the One indivisible whole that appears to be fragmented and separate. When enough people really get this Truth, the understanding would radically alter the way in which we interrelate. That’s what makes conferences such as the Science and Nonduality Conference so important.

Most people struggle with the possibility that they are not their body. This belief is a lot tougher to let go of because our experience is of peering out into the world though these two holes in our skulls. Our senses seem to validate that we are walking through the world and that, in turn only reinforces our beliefs that we are separate and alone.

But the nondualists tell us that we are really the underlying fabric from which all-that-IS mysteriously emerges. You are, they insist, the entire context in which the entire universe shows up in to play in your play. In other words, you are not as much in the world as much as the world is in you.''

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-gino- ... 67890.html

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:31 pm Religions are all about beliefs. However, there is no such believer.

Theist religions are about false ancient assumptions, and rules based upon those.

The scientific evidence is beginning to show that we live in a holographic universe

The holograph analogy is just that. An analogy to explain the math. All it means is that information here and "elsewhere" are equal.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:31 pm Religions are all about beliefs. However, there is no such believer.

This is where we part ways. Religions are about relationship and the pursuit values, not beliefs. That there is no believer is true, but only in a very narrow sense . . . though I do enjoy seeing the confusion the wordplay evokes. Fact is, Wholeness and diversity are interdependent: each is meaningless without the other.

Life is Non-dual, in every which way, shape, and form. Nondualism has absolutely nothing to do with belief

. . . and everything to do with perspective.

Man’s general way of thinking of the totality, i.e. his general world view, is crucial for overall order of the human mind itself. If he thinks of the totality as constituted of independent fragments, then that is how his mind will tend to operate, but if he can include everything coherently and harmoniously in an overall whole that is undivided, unbroken, and without a border (for every border is a division or break) then his mind will tend to move in a similar way, and from this will flow an orderly action within the whole. -- David Bohm, Wholeness and the Implicate Order

But by emphasizing Wholeness at the expense of diversity, we sacrifice beauty. That is a price I am not willing to pay.

[In] the pursuit of beauty — cosmology — you all too often limit to the study of man’s crude artistic endeavors. Beauty, art, is largely a matter of the unification of contrasts. Variety is essential to the concept of beauty. The supreme beauty, the height of finite art, is the drama of the
unification of the vastness of the cosmic extremes of Creator and creature. -- UB

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:31 pm Religions are all about beliefs. However, there is no such believer.

Life is Non-dual, in every which way, shape, and form. Nondualism has absolutely nothing to do with belief.

When are we going to stop pussy footing around playing with stupid old worn out ideas about believers and non-believers, and actually develop and evolve into the buddhas we were born as, but have temporarily forgotten about, devolved away from.

Any discussion regarding the idea of religion is a waste of time, it puts one in a tail chasing scenario of arguing against an ''I'm right'', and another ''I'm right''. Great, what's the point in that, where is that going to lead, and what will that acheive?..why not just discuss what is really actually going on here. And move away from belief for good, and focus on the clarity that is blindingly staring us in the face, waiting for us to wake up.

Your views above are not realistic.

If you are not forcing a new meaning of religion, then you should research, read up and understand [not necessary agree] what is the main theme in all those religions there are existing at present.
Note
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

Ninian Smart did a research on all religions of the world and noted there are 7 common dimensions within all religions,
http://danbhai.com/wr/l01.htm

The above are the main but there are other essential ones.
Nevertheless these dimensions differentiate 'religion' from spirituality.

But the underlying theme of all religions and spirituality is the existential crisis, the one that duped you to think there is or must be a real God when there is no such thing as a real God. This is also where the various competing ideas of God and no-God, dualism vs non-dualism arise.

We have to be realistic to recognize humanity comprised people of different religious inclinations therefore we need different religions to cater for the various people at least at the present.

When we have understood the mechanics of religions then in the light of its negative baggage and threat to humanity we have to wean off religion and replace them with fool proof alternatives in the future [not now].

Reflex wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:45 am

This is where we part ways. Religions are about relationship and the pursuit values, not beliefs. That there is no believer is true, but only in a very narrow sense . . . though I do enjoy seeing the confusion the wordplay evokes. Fact is, Wholeness and diversity are interdependent: each is meaningless without the other.

Dear departed, from belief to clarity.

It is known, not explained.

Forget the wordplay and just be silent then, and within that silence all will become clear.

Wordland is dualistic, the dream of separation.. lets be wholly understanding about this.




.

You have duped yourself into believing your arguments are rational, VA.

Psychology may indeed attempt to study the phenomena of religious in the social environment, but never can it hope to penetrate to the real and inner motives and workings (mechanisms) of religion. You talk about humanity, but do not know what forces comprise human beings.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:17 am

Reflex wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:45 am

This is where we part ways. Religions are about relationship and the pursuit values, not beliefs. That there is no believer is true, but only in a very narrow sense . . . though I do enjoy seeing the confusion the wordplay evokes. Fact is, Wholeness and diversity are interdependent: each is meaningless without the other.

Dear departed, from belief to clarity.

It is known, not explained.

It's not even known: it's lived.

Forget the wordplay and just be silent then, and within that silence all will become clear.

Wordland is dualistic, the dream of separation.. lets be wholly understanding about this.

Let's accept what's in front of face.

Reflex wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:29 am It's not even known: it's lived.

It's known as it is lived.

Lets not get sematic.

.

Reflex wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:45 am
But by emphasizing Wholeness at the expense of diversity, we sacrifice beauty. That is a price I am not willing to pay.

The only price you have to pay is that with beauty comes profound ugliness.

In reality, there is no sacrifice, once the mask is removed to reveal the original face which is both beautiful and ugly, yet neither.

Certainly worth the price of addmission. No one said it was going to be easy, just that it would be worth it...(paraphrasing)

.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:07 am

Reflex wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:45 am
But by emphasizing Wholeness at the expense of diversity, we sacrifice beauty. That is a price I am not willing to pay.

The only price you have to pay is that with beauty comes profound ugliness.

In reality, there is no sacrifice, once the mask is removed to reveal the original face which is both beautiful and ugly, yet neither.

Certainly worth the price of addmission. No one said it was going to be easy, just that it would be worth it...(paraphrasing)

Sorry, but neither your words nor your presumed depth impress me.

Thanks for the ride. It was fun.

Reflex wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 9:36 am Sorry, but neither your words nor your presumed depth impress me.

Thanks for the ride. It was fun.

The is no me to impress, there is only y(our) impression.

Words inform the illusory nature of reality, in that there is no you because there is no other than you.

Words are dualistic, the illusory split mind of knower and known.

.

Reflex wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:20 am You have duped yourself into believing your arguments are rational, VA.

Psychology may indeed attempt to study the phenomena of religious in the social environment, but never can it hope to penetrate to the real and inner motives and workings (mechanisms) of religion. You talk about humanity, but do not know what forces comprise human beings.

The wanna be know it all, is an idea known, but not by the wanna be know it all.

All knowledge is inclusive, it's all the one voice voicing difference where there is none.

Reality is irrationality trying to rationalise.

The irrational is an unconditioned condition.

.

In an ontological sense, everything begins and ends with the void (the true vacuum state). The void can never really be conceptualised, but for the purposes of developing a conceptual system, we can conceptualise the void as nothingness, an empty space of potentiality, or undifferentiated (non-dual) consciousness (awareness).

Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:22 am

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:31 pm Religions are all about beliefs. However, there is no such believer.

Life is Non-dual, in every which way, shape, and form. Nondualism has absolutely nothing to do with belief.

When are we going to stop pussy footing around playing with stupid old worn out ideas about believers and non-believers, and actually develop and evolve into the buddhas we were born as, but have temporarily forgotten about, devolved away from.

Any discussion regarding the idea of religion is a waste of time, it puts one in a tail chasing scenario of arguing against an ''I'm right'', and another ''I'm right''. Great, what's the point in that, where is that going to lead, and what will that acheive?..why not just discuss what is really actually going on here. And move away from belief for good, and focus on the clarity that is blindingly staring us in the face, waiting for us to wake up.

Your views above are not realistic.

If you are not forcing a new meaning of religion, then you should research, read up and understand [not necessary agree] what is the main theme in all those religions there are existing at present.
Note
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion

Ninian Smart did a research on all religions of the world and noted there are 7 common dimensions within all religions,
http://danbhai.com/wr/l01.htm

The above are the main but there are other essential ones.
Nevertheless these dimensions differentiate 'religion' from spirituality.

But the underlying theme of all religions and spirituality is the existential crisis, the one that duped you to think there is or must be a real God when there is no such thing as a real God. This is also where the various competing ideas of God and no-God, dualism vs non-dualism arise.

We have to be realistic to recognize humanity comprised people of different religious inclinations therefore we need different religions to cater for the various people at least at the present.

When we have understood the mechanics of religions then in the light of its negative baggage and threat to humanity we have to wean off religion and replace them with fool proof alternatives in the future [not now].

But Veritas, Dontaskme isn't talking about religion. She's talking about non duality. A HUGE difference!!

Ramu wrote: ↑Wed Aug 22, 2018 8:04 pm
But Veritas, Dontaskme isn't talking about religion. She's talking about non duality. A HUGE difference!!

Thanks...sweetheart