Philosophy Now Forum

Here we consider God as temporal and timeless. We show that we are dealing with a paradox in each case.

Temporal God: In this case God creates the universe at specific time so the universe has specific age. God however has no beginning which means that He has to exist in infinite past. This is however paradoxical because one cannot reach from infinite past to now.

Timeless God: In this case there is no time reference for which we can assign the act of creation to therefore the age of universe could be anything which this is paradoxical.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:25 am Here we consider God as temporal and timeless. We show that we are dealing with a paradox in each case.

Temporal God: In this case God creates the universe at specific time so the universe has specific age. God however has no beginning which means that He has to exist in infinite past. This is however paradoxical because one cannot reach from infinite past to now.

Timeless God: In this case there is no time reference for which we can assign the act of creation to therefore the age of universe could be anything which this is paradoxical.

The paradox is the word “Related”
Words are the illusion within Reality....knowledge informs illusory reality.

A seeming paradox.



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Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:14 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:25 am Here we consider God as temporal and timeless. We show that we are dealing with a paradox in each case.

Temporal God: In this case God creates the universe at specific time so the universe has specific age. God however has no beginning which means that He has to exist in infinite past. This is however paradoxical because one cannot reach from infinite past to now.

Timeless God: In this case there is no time reference for which we can assign the act of creation to therefore the age of universe could be anything which this is paradoxical.

The paradox is the word “Related”
Words are the illusion within Reality....knowledge informs illusory reality.

A seeming paradox.



.

What do you mean?

I think God/Allah needs a more proper name.

Iznogoud seems obvious!

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:21 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:14 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:25 am Here we consider God as temporal and timeless. We show that we are dealing with a paradox in each case.

Temporal God: In this case God creates the universe at specific time so the universe has specific age. God however has no beginning which means that He has to exist in infinite past. This is however paradoxical because one cannot reach from infinite past to now.

Timeless God: In this case there is no time reference for which we can assign the act of creation to therefore the age of universe could be anything which this is paradoxical.

The paradox is the word “Related”
Words are the illusion within Reality....knowledge informs illusory reality.

A seeming paradox.



.

What do you mean?

All concepts are fictions believed to be real.

True seeing is understanding the unreality of all concepts.

.

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:25 am Here we consider God as temporal and timeless. We show that we are dealing with a paradox in each case.

Temporal God: In this case God creates the universe at specific time so the universe has specific age. God however has no beginning which means that He has to exist in infinite past. This is however paradoxical because one cannot reach from infinite past to now.

Where are you getting this idea that God had no beginning from?

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:25 am Here we consider God as temporal and timeless. We show that we are dealing with a paradox in each case.

Temporal God: In this case God creates the universe at specific time so the universe has specific age. God however has no beginning which means that He has to exist in infinite past. This is however paradoxical because one cannot reach from infinite past to now.

Timeless God: In this case there is no time reference for which we can assign the act of creation to therefore the age of universe could be anything which this is paradoxical.

The problem with that is that no one really knows what time is or even if it is. For all we know, time is a self-contained bubble in which the internal processes, sustained by an immutable constant outside the bubble, are in a constant state of flux. Beginning and end in this scenario are meaningless concepts.

QuantumT wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:57 pm I think God/Allah needs a more proper name.

Ultimately, you are the proof that God exists, not the other way around. For before any question about God can be put, you must be there to put it.

Before the mind – I am. "I am" is not a thought in the mind; the mind happens to me, I do not happen to the mind. And since time and space are in the mind, I am beyond time and space, eternal and omnipresent.

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Nisargadatta: Go back to the source: before this concept of beingness, “I Am,” arose, what was your state?

V: I don’t know.

Nisargadatta: That which you don’t know, that is the right state.

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Knowing is knowledge which is fictional ...the dream.

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QuantumT wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:57 pm I think God/Allah needs a more proper name.

Iznogoud seems obvious!

sure, but he needs glasses

-Imp

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:08 am

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:21 pm

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:14 am

The paradox is the word “Related”
Words are the illusion within Reality....knowledge informs illusory reality.

A seeming paradox.



.

What do you mean?

All concepts are fictions believed to be real.

True seeing is understanding the unreality of all concepts.

.

Well, I would say that we are minds interacting with each other true reality we experience. We build/create concepts next. This is a concept which cannot be denied.

attofishpi wrote: ↑Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:45 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:25 am Here we consider God as temporal and timeless. We show that we are dealing with a paradox in each case.

Temporal God: In this case God creates the universe at specific time so the universe has specific age. God however has no beginning which means that He has to exist in infinite past. This is however paradoxical because one cannot reach from infinite past to now.

Where are you getting this idea that God had no beginning from?

Nothing comes of nothing. That is true because nothing is no thing. Therefore we need a first mover, God/Gods.

Dontaskme wrote: ↑Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:03 pm Ultimately, you are the proof that God exists, not the other way around. For before any question about God can be put, you must be there to put it.

Before the mind – I am. "I am" is not a thought in the mind; the mind happens to me, I do not happen to the mind. And since time and space are in the mind, I am beyond time and space, eternal and omnipresent.

.

Nisargadatta: Go back to the source: before this concept of beingness, “I Am,” arose, what was your state?

V: I don’t know.

Nisargadatta: That which you don’t know, that is the right state.

.

Knowing is knowledge which is fictional ...the dream.

.

Reflex wrote: ↑Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:08 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:25 am Here we consider God as temporal and timeless. We show that we are dealing with a paradox in each case.

Temporal God: In this case God creates the universe at specific time so the universe has specific age. God however has no beginning which means that He has to exist in infinite past. This is however paradoxical because one cannot reach from infinite past to now.

Timeless God: In this case there is no time reference for which we can assign the act of creation to therefore the age of universe could be anything which this is paradoxical.

The problem with that is that no one really knows what time is or even if it is. For all we know, time is a self-contained bubble in which the internal processes, sustained by an immutable constant outside the bubble, are in a constant state of flux. Beginning and end in this scenario are meaningless concepts.

I understand what you are saying but exactly because of that (bold part) timeless God cannot create at specific moment. Therefore either God cannot create or if it can the age of universe could be anything. In both cases we have a contradiction. That is true because in first case God is the creator (our only premises). We however conclude that God cannot be creator which is contrary to our premises. Therefore we are dealing with a contradiction. The second contradiction is obvious, the age of universe could be anything.

bahman wrote: ↑Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:10 pm

Reflex wrote: ↑Sat Jun 09, 2018 6:08 pm

bahman wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:25 am Here we consider God as temporal and timeless. We show that we are dealing with a paradox in each case.

Temporal God: In this case God creates the universe at specific time so the universe has specific age. God however has no beginning which means that He has to exist in infinite past. This is however paradoxical because one cannot reach from infinite past to now.

Timeless God: In this case there is no time reference for which we can assign the act of creation to therefore the age of universe could be anything which this is paradoxical.

The problem with that is that no one really knows what time is or even if it is. For all we know, time is a self-contained bubble in which the internal processes, sustained by an immutable constant outside the bubble, are in a constant state of flux. Beginning and end in this scenario are meaningless concepts.

I understand what you are saying but exactly because of that (bold part) timeless God cannot create at specific moment. Therefore either God cannot create or if it can the age of universe could be anything. In both cases we have a contradiction. That is true because in first case God is the creator (our only premises). We however conclude that God cannot be creator which is contrary to our premises. Therefore we are dealing with a contradiction. The second contradiction is obvious, the age of universe could be anything.

There is no “specific moment”; there’s no moments at all. It is not the case that God woke up one morning and decide create the univse.

Reflex wrote: ↑Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:21 pm There is no “specific moment”; there’s no moments at all. It is not the case that God woke up one morning and decide create the univiverse.

Let me explain it again: The existence of God and the act of creation either lie on each other or not. In the second case we have two state of affairs namely God and God+creation. This however makes God subject to time, temporal God. Considering the fact that God in this case has not have any beginning or He has to be eternal meaning that He has to exist from minus infinity to now. This is problematic since one cannot reach from minus infinity to now by waiting. In first case, God existence and the act of creation lie at the same point. This is the only condition in this case which does not put any limit on the age of universe therefore the age of creation could be anything which is problematic again.