Philosophy Now Forum

A psychiatrist expressed a view that pain and suffering are two different things.

The same pain can cause different degrees of suffering.

Is suffering something we indulge in or something we cannot escape from ?

Both.

some indulge in whatever they feel

some refuse to let shortcomings dictate their choices

some try to escape by becoming nothing

-Imp

Though intellect and willpower you can escape suffering and depression.

duszek wrote: ↑Sun May 27, 2018 9:32 am A psychiatrist expressed a view that pain and suffering are two different things.

You don't need advanced education to make this distinction. The words always meant different things.
Pain is a physiological response to physical damage. People use words loosely, but we are also aware that when someone says "It pains me to admit this" or refers to the pain of parting, they are using it metaphorically: we know that one's heart no more "aches" for love than "breaks" for the loss of love.

Suffering is caused by all kinds of negative experience, including those of the body and of the mind. Both wounds and privations; both physical illness and mental illness; hunger and grief, fractures and guilt, outward and inward trauma. There are even separate words for several kinds of degrees of each kind of negative experience that can cause suffering.

The same pain can cause different degrees of suffering.

How do you recognize "the same pain" in two people, or two instances on the same person? There is a neural response which might be measured (but usually isn't) objectively. Otherwise, the only ways you can classify pain are 1. the evident cause (they both had a knife wound to the gut) and the patient's own report (that 1-10 scale). But the pain is experienced subjectively and there are always variables - stress/adrenaline level of the victim; ambient temperature; state of patient's blood circulation and nerve stimulation; emotional state, etc.
It's never the same pain.
Aside from that, the patient himself may exacerbate his degree of suffering by dramatizing it, for example, or though anxiety; or mitigate it through meditation or auto-suggestion. Those around him, including medical staff, may also add to or take away from the degree of suffering that a patient experiences through their ministrations.

Is suffering something we indulge in or something we cannot escape from ?

Both. Humans seem to have a vast appetite for the idea of suffering - see Christianity and popular television - though few prefer to experience it first-hand.
I think perhaps, because we've realized that it's inescapable, we have attempted to "tame" it; ritualize and elevate it to to virtue; and enshrine sacrifice in our belief-systems; regard is purification; made a shibboleth of suffering.
You could call that indulgence, in the way we indulge all of our deities.

HexHammer wrote: ↑Sun May 27, 2018 9:16 pm Though intellect and willpower you can escape suffering and depression.

Depression is not a cognitive condition. Thinking non-depressed thoughts is not a panacea for dysphoric moods.

(Fortunately for some, intellect and resolve can assuage other-than-recalcitrant instances of depression.)

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed May 30, 2018 9:30 pm

HexHammer wrote: ↑Sun May 27, 2018 9:16 pm Though intellect and willpower you can escape suffering and depression.

Depression is not a cognitive condition. Thinking non-depressed thoughts is not a panacea for dysphoric moods.

(Fortunately for some, intellect and resolve can assuage other-than-recalcitrant instances of depression.)

Well it depends on which kind of depression one have, and through intellect one can find ways to escape the depression.

duszek wrote: ↑Sun May 27, 2018 9:32 am A psychiatrist expressed a view that pain and suffering are two different things.

The same pain can cause different degrees of suffering.

Is suffering something we indulge in or something we cannot escape from ?

Pain is physical and it is a form of suffering. We have depression which is kind of mental suffering.

HexHammer wrote: ↑Thu May 31, 2018 1:38 am

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed May 30, 2018 9:30 pm

HexHammer wrote: ↑Sun May 27, 2018 9:16 pm Though intellect and willpower you can escape suffering and depression.

Depression is not a cognitive condition. Thinking non-depressed thoughts is not a panacea for dysphoric moods.

(Fortunately for some, intellect and resolve can assuage other-than-recalcitrant instances of depression.)

Well it depends on which kind of depression one have, and through intellect one can find ways to escape the depression.

Agreed.

bahman wrote: ↑Thu May 31, 2018 2:27 am

duszek wrote: ↑Sun May 27, 2018 9:32 am A psychiatrist expressed a view that pain and suffering are two different things.

The same pain can cause different degrees of suffering.

Is suffering something we indulge in or something we cannot escape from ?

Pain is physical and it is a form of suffering. We have depression which is kind of mental suffering.

So if pain is always and by definition physical we cannot experience mental pain at all.

Pain is an objective hardship inflicted from outside.

Suffering is the degree to which the inflicted individual feels discomfort.

If I feel pain I suffer from it.

Unless ...

I don´t mind feeling pain.

In that rare case I do not suffer from it.

duszek wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:14 am Pain is an objective hardship inflicted from outside.

Suffering is the degree to which the inflicted individual feels discomfort.

Bumped your head a lot? Is headache something from outside? When will you realize that you are completely unsuited for even basic philosophy? Everything you say has the same mental aptitude like a dog chasing it's own tail.

I think I once heard that suffering is good for the soul (a religious turnoff). No pain, no gain, etc.

Why not go through life without pain? Would we survive as well or even better?

"Pain is an objective hardship inflicted from outside." How does that compare with pain from inside?

PhilX

Pain is necessary to let you know you're doing something wrong, like leaning on a hot stove, or leading with your chin.

Suffering is unnecessary.