Philosophy Now Forum

(Thanks to Arising for inspiring this thread) Without threads, no one would be posting here. Is it that hard for people to come up with topics? Does trolling discourage people from posting threads?

What do you think?

PhilX

I pop in and out of my activity on this site so much that I hesitate to start threads. I have plenty of ideas I'd like to cover, but I like to able to proactively follow a topic to its end, and I definitely don't like to respond to someone weeks after they've replied to me. I just find that to be informal internet etiquette.

So they have to wait until I have the motivation and free time in my life to be able to have a fleshed out discussion... but mostly it's the prior. I find that most of the people on this forum would rather discuss politics, than something philosophical, which is not really what I joined this site for. Still, there are a few good users I watch around here. Although they usually don't post threads, either, so maybe they're just discouraged by the same thing I am.

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 12:29 pmDoes trolling discourage people from posting threads?

To some extent. Still, some arguably deserve to be trolled. Many on forums come with an agenda that they want to disseminate, using the forum as a publishing platform. Fine, if it's solid, fair-minded and interesting. Trouble is, most of the good stuff is in actual publications. Forums are basically meme lucky dips.

I prefer the minority who are here to chat and exchange ideas about interesting aspects of reality. Same with real life - I prefer people who don't try to railroad others with attitude or an agenda, who just enjoy chatting about interesting things with other curious human beings.

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 12:29 pm Does trolling discourage people from posting threads?

Maybe.

However, I am absolutely certain that the presence of vulgar and mean-spirited people (as in those who are quick to insult others in vile and mocking retorts) surely does.

Greta wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 3:26 am To some extent. Still, some arguably deserve to be trolled. Many on forums come with an agenda that they want to disseminate, using the forum as a publishing platform. Fine, if it's solid, fair-minded and interesting. Trouble is, most of the good stuff is in actual publications. Forums are basically meme lucky dips.

I prefer the minority who are here to chat and exchange ideas about interesting aspects of reality. Same with real life - I prefer people who don't try to railroad others with attitude or an agenda, who just enjoy chatting about interesting things with other curious human beings.

I can only speak for myself, but some of us (no doubt with a naïve hope and intent) are here to help awaken others from their zombie-like state of mind that allows them not only to ignore the suffering across the planet,...

...but also to ignore the fact that they themselves may actually be responsible for some of it.

I had my heart broken decades ago at the sight of images similar to this...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_vultu ... ittle_girl

...while simultaneously witnessing the inexcusable fact that those who could actually do something about it...

(and when I say “those,” I mean “us”)

...simply look the other way as we focus on (old Roman style) entertainment (athletic spectacle, gluttonous eating, television, Internet, Kardashians, porn, etc., etc.).

So then, while idle chit-chat about interesting topics is fun, picture the fiendish absurdity of it occurring in the immediate presence of the little girl in the photo.

And the point is that “distance” should not be affecting our natural impulse to save our little sister in the way that we would if, for instance, she were lying in our back yard next to the lawn chairs, barbeque, and bird bath.

So yes, I do have an agenda (though it may not be obvious in my posting history).

It is an agenda that hopes that talk about higher consciousness and transcendent visions of reality might slowly trigger something in others that was abruptly triggered in me via entheogenic substances back in my “we are all brothers and sisters” hippie days.
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seeds wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 9:23 pm It is an agenda that hopes that talk about higher consciousness and transcendent visions of reality might slowly trigger something in others that was abruptly triggered in me via entheogenic substances back in my “we are all brothers and sisters” hippie days.

One would think there should already be more than enough consciousness in terms of simple humanity to make one feel less than human looking at these kind of pictures which, btw, also includes the hideous fate of so many animals.

It doesn't require a higher consciousness but a conscience which conversely should be an instrument of severe retribution, not merely regret, against those who needlessly and indifferently inflict these kind of miseries. The vulture in this scene, making it look even more hideous, is only doing its job as nature designed it; what caused it to be there at that moment were humans as they appear to be from the outside.

A "conscience" demands cleansing not unlike what a higher consciousness requires if it is to develop itself. In this transcendent visions of reality are superfluous and completely impractical. It's the current realities which serve as catalysts and motive.

seeds wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 9:23 pmI can only speak for myself, but some of us (no doubt with a naïve hope and intent) are here to help awaken others from their zombie-like state of mind that allows them not only to ignore the suffering across the planet,...

So many well-meaning people fighting for peace, each with their own spin on it.

I personally think there is too much suffering for a person to process. Consider all of the suffering over the last four billion years that brought us to this point, and all that's occurring right at this moment.

It's like contemplating all the grains of sand on a beach. Like it or not, suffering is the emotional side of the destructive and reconstructive aspect of reality. There is growth and entropy, life and death, happiness and suffering, and these abstractions circle each other like planets and moons, and each orbit, each time period, brings a little more change.

seeds wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 9:23 pm It is an agenda that hopes that talk about higher consciousness and transcendent visions of reality might slowly trigger something in others that was abruptly triggered in me via entheogenic substances back in my “we are all brothers and sisters” hippie days.

Dubious wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 10:25 pm ...It doesn't require a higher consciousness but a conscience which conversely should be an instrument of severe retribution, not merely regret, against those who needlessly and indifferently inflict these kind of miseries.

I agree with you Dubious.

But what would be the catalyst to elicit the needed and appropriate “conscience” in others.

I mean, even the photographer who snapped the vulture photo, simply walked away and left the little girl to her fate.

(Unfortunately, he subsequently committed suicide shortly after winning the Pulitzer Prize for that particular shot, which probably has something to do with the “severe retribution” you mentioned.)

Therefore, in your analysis of the inadequacy of my approach to the problem (which, btw, I am well aware of), what do you personally have to offer in its stead that would cause an increase in the conscience of humanity?
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seeds wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 9:23 pm I can only speak for myself, but some of us (no doubt with a naïve hope and intent) are here to help awaken others from their zombie-like state of mind that allows them not only to ignore the suffering across the planet,...

Greta wrote: ↑Thu May 24, 2018 11:50 pm ...I personally think there is too much suffering for a person to process. Consider all of the suffering over the last four billion years that brought us to this point, and all that's occurring right at this moment.

It's like contemplating all the grains of sand on a beach. Like it or not, suffering is the emotional side of the destructive and reconstructive aspect of reality. There is growth and entropy, life and death, happiness and suffering, and these abstractions circle each other like planets and moons, and each orbit, each time period, brings a little more change.

It sounds to me like you are trying to reason the problem away in terms of simply accepting it as being just too big to do anything about – as if it were all just an aspect of nature.

I, on the other hand, suggest that the more ways humans are confronted with their own culpability in the problems of the world (i.e., forced to look into the mirror), then the greater is the possibility that they might wake up.

For example (and to slightly paraphrase something I posted elsewhere as it pertains to the little girl in the vulture photo)...

seeds wrote: I cannot help but think that if our American ancestors had not viciously attacked and decimated the little girl’s African ancestors in the truly immoral slave trade, it is quite possible that she might not have ended up in the dreadful condition seen in the photograph.

Think about this...

Our thoughtless and exceedingly cruel forefathers jump-started the early American economy via the crushing work, brutally forced on the backs of humans who were kidnapped from the little girl’s continent.

We are talking about an economy that has now grown into a behemoth of consumption and waste where 5% of the earth’s human population takes-in and consumes a vastly disproportionate share of the world’s resources, especially energy (approximately 24%).

Therefore, not only did we interfere with (perhaps even destroy) her ancestor’s chances of advancing into a standard of living that may have averted her dilemma, but it is not unreasonable to think that America’s present and bloated, “over-share” of the planet’s wealth is, in some way, drawing away from her share.

All of which has led to the creation of the aforementioned “Romanesque-like” atmosphere in America where the present state of entertainment in general is attempting to satiate our ever-increasing need for greater and more depraved thrills.

We can only imagine how much different the world would be right now if our American forefathers had offered friendship and support to her forefathers, instead of the hell they created.
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So no, Greta, there is nothing inevitable or natural about much of the human suffering in this world, for most of it is founded upon the low-conscious and selfish decisions made by humans...

...hence my “agenda” to try and raise consciousness.
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seeds wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 3:46 amIt sounds to me like you are trying to reason the problem away in terms of simply accepting it as being just too big to do anything about – as if it were all just an aspect of nature.

Suffering is entirely natural. That's why we are always trying to escape it.

Yes, an ocean is made from droplets, so if you have enough droplets put together you create a powerful wave. Good luck being one of the many droplets hoping that your wave will be the biggest.

seeds wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 3:44 am ...what do you personally have to offer in its stead that would cause an increase in the conscience of humanity?

The question for me is simultaneously unproblematic and difficult making it more complex than if it simply defaulted to either. There can be many causes, intense trauma being the universal one either personally experienced or felt empathically.

For one, I don’t believe a higher consciousness is required to cause an increase in conscience. The consciousness we collectively possess should be easily sufficient to experience the retributions of negative feedback; it only needs to be activated more and its contents better examined.

For me, conscience possesses structure and not a tepid one in being so congruent with consciousness, in effect, becoming an object within it. There is no soft spot in the psyche feeling the pain of getting beaten up by events. It is by means of consciousness and conscience that we as creatures of nature separate ourselves from it, nature itself having caused it.

It’s precisely this structure which extreme politics or the military seek to dismantle, seldom with complete success, to enforce cooperation with commands your natural humanity would not otherwise allow itself to perform; it amounts to the intentional corruption of what nature has supplied to make us human.

Anyways, that’s my view in a nutshell which is probably where it came from though there exist many more variations on the subject.

seeds wrote:…there is nothing inevitable or natural about much of the human suffering in this world, for most of it is founded upon the low-conscious and selfish decisions made by humans...

It was bound to happen that we completely agree on something!

In terms of suffering, it’s makes no sense to conflate what humans do in the name of every devised and despised expediency with what nature does and average it out in the process as something inevitable. The suffering depicted and many more like it would only be inevitable if not caused by human agency.

It doesn’t take much to realize if there is any affinity between the two, it’s extremely tenuous and that humans are not meant or obliged to follow the modalities of nature. We are no-longer creatures of the savannas forging and hunting; neither do we resemble the populations of the Middle Ages where every supposed blasphemy was threatened with the most gruesome death.

The elimination of needless suffering, gratuitously and artificially imposed has not yet been fully mastered by conscience and probably never will. The perennial lust for power under the guise of security concerns will always prevent conscience from doing its duty.

Philosophy Explorer wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 12:29 pm (Thanks to Arising for inspiring this thread) Without threads, no one would be posting here. Is it that hard for people to come up with topics? Does trolling discourage people from posting threads?

What do you think?

PhilX

not for me, but as we prob agree it is wise to observe first before posting/pontificating.

i'm an obverser by nature, but never understood taking the time to join a forum per a topic of interest and never starting thread/posting replies too.............

so i guess am part pontificator too.

carry on

BTW I thought you were a troll...........but being a nebie here just made that assurtion perosnally. your rely to your own threads per you interests proved you were not so. and i'm glad.

you are not a troll, but a mindful person, as i'd like to view myself as as well.

peace and good will and good day to you Sir. (I assume "sir" - if not so my appoligies for the assumption that "phil" is a mascualine sirname).


how i hate PC........

thants for thread BTW

seeds wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 3:44 am ...what do you personally have to offer in its stead that would cause an increase in the conscience of humanity?

Dubious wrote: ↑Fri May 25, 2018 11:29 pm The question for me is simultaneously unproblematic and difficult making it more complex than if it simply defaulted to either.

Dubious, I have taken the liberty of continuing this conversation in a new thread, titled: “What can be done to increase humanity’s conscience?” in the General philosophy section, (here - viewtopic.php?f=5&t=24252#p360416)
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