Philosophy Now Forum

Arising_uk some months ago I read in danish news that your school philosophy have given good results, which I must cave in to and say I stand corrected.

But at the same time I have also said it might have been refined philosophy as there are indeed very valuable but few good aspects of philosophy.

Explain, please.

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:16 pmExplain, please.

In school you only learn calculative and memorizing things, not to question information, ask one self or others if there's more to it than what seems, etc etc, therefore with philosophy ones metal skills will increase.

It's on par with what computers can do on low lvl, with abstract and holistic thinking we can greatly increase our skills.

HexHammer wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:45 pm In school you only learn calculative and memorizing things, not to question information, ask one self or others if there's more to it than what seems, etc etc, therefore with philosophy ones metal skills will increase.

It's on par with what computers can do on low lvl, with abstract and holistic thinking we can greatly increase our skills.

I don't know what school you went to.

I was schooled in the Eotvos Lorandt Tudomanyegyetem a Munka Voros Zaszlo Erdemjegyevel kituntetett Apaczai Csere Janos Gyakorlo Gimnazium, and at least 25% of the school's work for students was to work out problems on their own, in math, in literature, in history, in physics. These and other subjects were taught with some rote memorization data, in fact, most of the teaching and lectures were about rote memorization. But when a new topic was introduced, the teacher would ask the students and give them ten minutes of silence to work out the problem or try to, before the teacher would present the solution with the backdrop of the new material.

In university, I went to Ryerson Polytechnical Institute in Toronto, and in my field, math, physics and computer science int he first three years at least 80 or 90 percent of the curricula work invovled creatively solving problems.

---------------

That's that. If you were schooled in the USA, in public schools, then I admit that your education is probably worth very little. I daresay that beyond learning the alphabet and the multiplication tables, your education was worth exactly as much as you paid for it. You, personally.

Sorry, I am one of those academic snobs who is woefully appalled by the education standards in North America.

-1- wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:49 pmSorry, I am one of those academic snobs who is woefully appalled by the education standards in North America.

I'm from Denmark and we just are 1 stage above beating hollow tree trunks. Our schools are so bad that it actually reversed in recent times where a scary amount of functional analphabets leaving school, when in the 80s we had about zero.

To make schools more efficient in 80s the time between classes was cut from 10 min to 5 min, resulting in teachers always coming least 5 - 7 min late, resulting in lost teaching.
Now about 7 years ago we decided that we had to have a new school reform having 8 h days for students, resulting in students not having hobbies besides school, lost jobs etc, everybody gets stress etc and learning has further dropped.

What you say is something that comes from another universe O_O count yourself lucky!

I know the system isn't just bad, but utterly bad, because I don't have any formal education, but waltzed into a newspaper and made HUGE progress reduced several areas, reduced install time from ca 3 h to mere 3 min, there was a legal hack program that could move system files, instantly I knew that it was possible to make an image of the install, then put it on a CD then divide the HD in 2 thus one could just wipe the system area and reinstall and no loss, in case of virus etc.

Everybody tried to make the CEO change the dino 2 bit terminals from 77 (1998) it was quite easy for me, I knew all CEO are sickly scrooges, just saying "you're not saving money, you're LOSING MONEY!!!" ...I got his undivided attention (for a few sec) then argued they spontaneously break down least 3 times a day, and takes 10 min to reboot, that's wasted time, loss of production time, hat's LEAST 30 min lost right there, they don't sit and save all the time, so it's further about 3.5 min lost ..etc etc, so he found that it was about 100 wasted hour per sales person per year!

I had also get weird about the programming of the sales staff OS, saving in 1 area with 'O' ..then F2 in another, programmed by high functioning retards!!!

..the list goes on and on!

People can't think freely, they're like machines.

Try look at this one:

I have a brilliant doctor friend, who uncritically told me a story he heard in a auditorium filled with fellow doctors at Panum (danish educational institute ..or something)

2 garbage men, who had been in the buisness for 2 decades, who had sufferd foul odeurs through out their career, took on a vacation to Turkey and went to the perfume streets.
As they walked the one would become ill, and in the end fell to the ground. The helpful perfume sellers would aid the poor man with their smelling salts, but only making him go to a deeper coma.
The other garbage man would realize it was the thick odour in the street that caused the problem, and pulled his friend out to cleaner air, which helped and he would awaken from the coma.

Conclusion: each their scent.

HexHammer wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:06 am pulled his friend out to cleaner air, which helped and he would awaken from the coma.

Conclusion: each their scent.

US country men who go to tropical climates for a week or two for holidaying, always get Montezuma's revenge, that is, upset stomach and violent diarrhea, for a few days, after which they go back to normal. These Amys blame the water, the poorly sanitized water that you drink.

Then Mexicans and other mezo-Americans come and visit the USA, in Phoenix, in Minnesota, in New York, and they get the same symptoms: upset stomach, violent diarrhea. They blame the sanitized water, it is too sterile for human consumption.

-1- wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 3:00 amUS country men who go to tropical climates for a week or two for holidaying, always get Montezuma's revenge, that is, upset stomach and violent diarrhea, for a few days, after which they go back to normal. These Amys blame the water, the poorly sanitized water that you drink.

Then Mexicans and other mezo-Americans come and visit the USA, in Phoenix, in Minnesota, in New York, and they get the same symptoms: upset stomach, violent diarrhea. They blame the sanitized water, it is too sterile for human consumption.

No, the conclusion was "each their scent" so it doesn't explain the sudden change when he's pulled out from the perfume streets, and why his critical state got worsen with the smelling salts, and neither explains why the other dude didn't take a dive.

Sorry you are way way off.

HexHammer wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:05 am Sorry you are way way off.

I guess you are right.

My simile only explains that extremes can be temporarily irritating.

HexHammer wrote: ↑Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:45 pm

commonsense wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:16 pmExplain, please.

In school you only learn calculative and memorizing things, not to question information, ask one self or others if there's more to it than what seems, etc etc, therefore with philosophy ones metal skills will increase.

It's on par with what computers can do on low lvl, with abstract and holistic thinking we can greatly increase our skills.

HH,

I appreciate that you are posting in English even though it is not your natural language. Please take no offense, but there were 2 phrases in your post where I may have gotten confused. Just to be sure that I am understanding your OP correctly:

By “school philosophy” would it make sense with what you are saying for me to say “using philosophy as a school subject”?

When you said “it might have been refined philosophy” would it be consistent with what you are thinking for me to say “the good results might have been due to philosophy that is other than the basics of philosophy”?

Please let me know if my phrases are in agreement or not with what you were saying.



I see a difference between critical, or analytical, thinking (which is what I believe you are referencing when you talk about asking yourself or others if there's more to it than what meets the eye) and creative problem solving (which I believe is what -1- is discussing in addition to discussing critical thinking).

Both are essential ingredients for success in many endeavors outside of school. Both are advanced skills. Both require practice. Both are difficult.

They have similarities with respect to knowledge and application of knowledge.

With critical/analytical thinking, one is given a piece to be evaluated and a cache of questions that might be asked. Once asked, the answers are to be deciphered in order to provide a useful analysis or a valid criticism.

To creatively solve problems, one is given a problem to solve and a cache of problem solving tools that might be applied. Once the problem is defined, the tools and techniques that are selected must be implemented to create a solution.

Logic is key to succeeding in either thinking style. Utilizing philosophical arguments to demonstrate logic is an excellent precursor to working with critical and creative thinking per se.

As a retired educator, it is my opinion that adults should be as well prepared as possible in both critical and creative thinking. However, these are hard to teach.

Giving students the opportunity to think creatively, and -1- alluded to this, is one way to encourage self-practice as a means of attaining critical thinking skills.

Another is to teach students a set of questions (the 5 W’s come to mind) that may be applicable in making a critical analysis; then provide material for supervised practice, gradually reducing the amount of coaching the students receive. Providing philosophic material would be the cat's meow.

Without the abilities to think critically and creatively, people indeed are like machines.

commonsense wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:01 am...yadda yadda ..bla bla ..bla!!

Once asked, the answers are to be deciphered in order to provide a useful analysis or a valid criticism.

What you say is incoherent smartass nonsense and babble, you have only theoretical "proof" of an imagined grand solution to everything in this world.

I have proven myself by having no education yet taught senior staff what to do and how to do their work, because I am a genius, which you are not.

I'm a millionaire, and you are not!

You have only theoretical knowledge, I have practical knowledge!

Thanks for your lecture, but no thanks.

Try reading it again without the chip on your shoulder.

commonsense wrote: ↑Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:45 pmTry reading it again without the chip on your shoulder.

You are a retired educator, this changes nothing.

Specially when I know you can't solve this one:

I have a brilliant doctor friend, who uncritically told me a story he heard in a auditorium filled with fellow doctors at Panum (danish educational institute ..or something)

2 garbage men, who had been in the buisness for 2 decades, who had sufferd foul odeurs through out their career, took on a vacation to Turkey and went to the perfume streets.
As they walked the one would become ill, and in the end fell to the ground. The helpful perfume sellers would aid the poor man with their smelling salts, but only making him go to a deeper coma.
The other garbage man would realize it was the thick odour in the street that caused the problem, and pulled his friend out to cleaner air, which helped and he would awaken from the coma.

Conclusion: each their scent.

HexHammer wrote: ↑Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:06 am Try look at this one:

I have a brilliant doctor friend, who uncritically told me a story he heard in a auditorium filled with fellow doctors at Panum (danish educational institute ..or something)

2 garbage men, who had been in the buisness for 2 decades, who had sufferd foul odeurs through out their career, took on a vacation to Turkey and went to the perfume streets.
As they walked the one would become ill, and in the end fell to the ground. The helpful perfume sellers would aid the poor man with their smelling salts, but only making him go to a deeper coma.
The other garbage man would realize it was the thick odour in the street that caused the problem, and pulled his friend out to cleaner air, which helped and he would awaken from the coma.

Conclusion: each their scent.

Aha! "Try look at this one:" was meant as a serious challenge rather than as an extraneous remark.

Your conclusion makes no sense both semantically and grammatically. It must be deciphered. I can begin by speculating that the conclusion is an anagram. I interpret it to be “three catches in” meaning that there are 3 catches in the story. However, with 4 misspellings and bollixed grammar throughout, “three” must refer to an amount that is not 1 (for it would be a quantity simply described by the article “the” or “a”), not 2 (described as "a pair", "the pair", "this pair", "that pair" et al), but is "some". Therefore, the clue offered by the conclusion is that there are multiple non-sequiturs in the story.

Since there are multiple illogicalities in the story, any answer is a correct answer.

Thank you for quoting me (“answers are to be deciphered in order to provide a useful analysis”), which yielded the mega-clue that led me to start by deciphering the conclusion.

commonsense wrote: ↑Wed Apr 25, 2018 3:58 pmSince there are multiple illogicalities in the story, any answer is a correct answer.

Thank you for quoting me (“answers are to be deciphered in order to provide a useful analysis”), which yielded the mega-clue that led me to start by deciphering the conclusion.

You are utterly clueless, in any serious business you would be fired.

If you whole world revolves around spelling, then you wouldn't earn money, any reasonable intelligent person should be able to see the deeper meaning in written communication, which totally fails you. You need to learn the concept of relevance, but an savant like you may never learn that.