Philosophy Now Forum

Here's another line that mystfies me...

"You don't have a sense of self-ownership either, which is why you can't present any objective evidence for the alleged existence of this made-up, fictional concept of "self-ownership."

Rather than poll, I ask the following...


Do you love someone (a parent, a sibling, a mate, a child, a friend)?

If you do, can you offer any 'objective evidence for the alleged existence of' this love?


Does anyone love you (a parent, sibling, mate, child, friend)?

If so, can you offer any 'objective evidence for the alleged existence of' this love?

There is objective evidence for one person loving another, from brain scans, hormonal changes, to dilated eyes, to acts performed out of love that can't be explained in another manner. That is objective evidence, whether one finds it convincing or not.

However, there is no objective evidence for self-ownership, because it is simply a made-up fictional concept. Concepts like love are different -- they attempt to name and define something that really does exist among humans.

"There is objective evidence for one person loving another, from brain scans, hormonal changes, to dilated eyes"

Biological events with multiple possible causes...'evidence', yes, but clear indicator of 'what', is the question.

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"acts performed out of love that can't be explained in another manner."

Obviously, you've never been the target of the malicious who can mimic 'love' seeking profit.


My point: I can point to fokks I love and who I believe love me, but I'd be hard-pressed to prove any of it. For every evidence I could offer, soneone could offer a plausible alternative.

I suggest love (loving, more precisely) is subjective. In the same way, I suggest self-ownership (as I've described it) is also subjective. No doubt, I could offer up brain scans, etc. of a person who is self-owned vs one who isn't, could point to various acts of individuals illustrating their obvious sense of belonging to no one but themselves.

My evidences would be no more or less compelling than yours offered up as evidence of love. I got the feeling, though, my evidences (again, no more or less compelling than your own examples) would be dismissed by you.

Again: it's okay, Sci...we don't have to (obviously won't) agree on this.

no self ownership...

if you don't own yourself, do you own what you do?

if not, you won't mind being a slave

-Imp

Impenitent post wrote: if you don't own yourself, do you own what you do?

if not, you won't mind being a slave

-Imp

They pay slaves?

Arising_uk wrote: ↑Tue Jun 27, 2017 12:26 am

Impenitent post wrote: if you don't own yourself, do you own what you do?

if not, you won't mind being a slave

-Imp

They pay slaves?

not if they don't own themselves

-Imp

Ah! Sorry, missed the point.

"you won't mind being a slave"

In my experience: there are folks who don't mind at all...they live enshackled (trading off liberties for security is one fine example of this).

So: one's self-possession can't be taken for granted...always, always, always there's someone wantin' to 'use' you and make you thank them for the experience.