Philosophy Now Forum

Perhaps it is not God's business to interfere in mankind's business. God would have God's own life to defend and live.

what say you?

osgart wrote:Perhaps it is not God's business to interfere in mankind's business. God would have God's own life to defend and live.

what say you?

God is never separated from his offspring. You're OP makes no sense whatsoever.

God does interact with humans all the time, we were made in his image. God it the invisible visible...inseparably one appearing as many.

Maybe interfere is the wrong word, as to interfere, would mean to deny you access to a freewill, to interfere is to take that away.. where you would only have the ability to doubt and even doubt your doubts.

God, is already in relationship with you, that's why he loves you so much as himself and want's to spend eternity with you. He is the invisible eternal all knowing all powerful seeing eye experiencing himself in limited finite visible form...in relationship aka as and through the temporal you.

God is your Father, the Absolute Immortal eternal formless causeless cause of himself inform as and through a relative mortal body. In relationship with himself.

He loves you because he is love, and love can only come from love, so he already knows evil cannot find a place to hide or live.

We are his children, and just like any other loving Father, he gets angry when he see us putting our selves in danger.

And like the all powerful one he is, can rage not because he hates you but because he loves you and want's to protect you, his way of getting you to repent to your natural state of love is by sending natural atrocious happenings to you.


Anyone who can see them self in Jesus Christ will already know the power of their Fathers love. And are automatically saved in God's grace. Because an innocent loving child cannot be held guilty of sin, for he knows not what sin is.


Those that have eyes will see their Lord...and know his ways, those who stray and become estranged are cast out of their own garden by their own choosing alone, and not from their Father's choosing, for he allows all things to happen ...but then will forgive you mercifully as and when you finally do see the light and amend the errors of your wicked ways...because heaven is always waiting for us to return when ever we want, just like any loving Father would do for his children (Jesus)..by keeping his door wide open and his arms wide open to give refuge and comfort from the storm of life...unconditional love is never absent, the wise all knowing Fathers already knows his children will always turn to him when in trouble, cause he made them the way they are, and he's the only one knows what's best for them. Because he's been there before them.


.I'm using the words ''HE'' as a metaphoric conceptual symbol, not as an actual literal gender specific.
We could even say that God is female...which THE Gnostic's use as their symbol for God as in the idea of SOPHIA

osgart wrote:Perhaps it is not God's business to interfere in mankind's business. God would have God's own life to defend and live.

what say you?

Reminds me of a story I once heard.
Of course it’s on the internet.
Cut and paste.

A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.
Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."
The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me."
So the rowboat went on.

Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, "Jump in, I can save you."
To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."
So the motorboat went on.

Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety."
To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."
So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"
To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

For any of you who may have been wondering why I'm talking in this context and noticed I have moved away from my usual method of spouting Nondual context, is because maybe I think it's a better way to express the meaning of Nondual existence that can be understood perhaps more easily by the masses. It's still Nondual expression, but put in a different way than how I have previously been doing.
____
Disclaimer: Everything I write is my opinion only. Resonate with what resonates and cast what doesn't to the sin bin, it's your prerogative. We are here to exchange ideas, not grant absolute truths by rejecting objective truths.

Walker wrote:

osgart wrote:Perhaps it is not God's business to interfere in mankind's business. God would have God's own life to defend and live.

what say you?

Reminds me of a story I once heard.
Of course it’s on the internet.
Cut and paste.

A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.
Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."
The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me."
So the rowboat went on.

Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, "Jump in, I can save you."
To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."
So the motorboat went on.

Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety."
To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."
So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"
To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

I've always loved this metaphor...thanks for the reminder. God say's go and fend for yourself, and stop bothering me, I'm too busy dealing with the rest of my offspring, so off you shoo, your old enough, and wise enough to go your own way, knowing full well, they'll always return if they need him.,for although they leave him, he never leaves them.....hahaha...good one.

Dontaskme wrote:

Walker wrote:

osgart wrote:Perhaps it is not God's business to interfere in mankind's business. God would have God's own life to defend and live.

what say you?

Reminds me of a story I once heard.
Of course it’s on the internet.
Cut and paste.

A fellow was stuck on his rooftop in a flood. He was praying to God for help.
Soon a man in a rowboat came by and the fellow shouted to the man on the roof, "Jump in, I can save you."
The stranded fellow shouted back, "No, it's OK, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me."
So the rowboat went on.

Then a motorboat came by. "The fellow in the motorboat shouted, "Jump in, I can save you."
To this the stranded man said, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."
So the motorboat went on.

Then a helicopter came by and the pilot shouted down, "Grab this rope and I will lift you to safety."
To this the stranded man again replied, "No thanks, I'm praying to God and he is going to save me. I have faith."
So the helicopter reluctantly flew away.

Soon the water rose above the rooftop and the man drowned. He went to Heaven. He finally got his chance to discuss this whole situation with God, at which point he exclaimed, "I had faith in you but you didn't save me, you let me drown. I don't understand why!"
To this God replied, "I sent you a rowboat and a motorboat and a helicopter, what more did you expect?"

I've always loved this metaphor...thanks for the reminder. God say's go and fend for yourself, and stop bothering me, I'm too busy dealing with the rest of my offspring, so off you shoo, your old enough, and wise enough to go your own way, knowing full well, they'll always return if they need him.,for although they leave him, he never leaves them.....hahaha...good one.

That's not what happened.

God sent help, multiple times and in different ways, but it was not accepted.

The petitioner was a liar.
Or else, so locked into a paradigm he couldn't see straight.
He didn't want help.
He wanted to drown.

Walker wrote: That's not what happened.

God sent help, multiple times and in different ways, but it was not accepted.

The petitioner was a liar.
Or else, so locked into a paradigm he couldn't see straight.
He didn't want help.
He wanted to drown.

Yeah, I know that's not what happened, I know what happened, but was just adding more paint to the screen with some add on effect of my own

After drowning and going to heaven, and after hearing God explain what happened, to remain in character the man should have said, “What do you mean?”

God does indeed interfere with humans! He led Joseph to Egypt to manage the grain, he flooded the world to kill humans. His wrath annihilated Sodom and Gomorrah.

What you think of is well described in a song "oh Lord won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz?" Humans want's God to give them things and help them on a personal lvl.

my mother says God helps those who help themselves. The way she means that is idle people never meet God.

you have to be a willing doer.

my point is that there is evil in the world. shooting up a theatre or children's school.

who does the punishment? God or humans

you might say humans subject to God's will are doing this job.

God didn't help those little children.

So therefore God is a delusion.

now I like the meaning that God is the highest standard of morality and genuine goodness.

but it is merely a standard to aspire to.

now perhaps a divine being wouldn't intervene for personal reasons but godhood is power and rule over God's subjects .

there is simply no evidence that that is reality.

Perhaps a divine being might point out that everyone must live within the scope of their own lives and take personal responsibility for their own circles.

a divine being may have higher purposes of vital interest and may not compromise those interests by governing us .

a divine being perhaps isn't all powerful.

So if there are divine beings they certainly did not create us otherwise we would be part of their lives.

but intelligence is a form of existence we must have been created you say?

But our creators are probably more like humans than God. And death is just an illusion of a greater reality hidden from us where vastly intelligent creatures spawn living creatures.

The other half of you will simply defer to your physical senses and say life is a fluke of physics.

it seems though everyone enjoys debating God and intelligent cause but neither side secular or spiritual enjoys any real evidence nor validity.

Because it is simply the unknown.

So we should all quit assaulting people's beliefs and convictions because it's all the great unknown and nobody has the definitive answers as to why we are here or what the cause and nature of being is.

religion and naturalists both have contributed to human progress. And yet they both operate on belief and conviction from belief

osgart wrote:Perhaps it is not God's business to interfere in mankind's business.

Well, then, what is your explanation for the extremely conservative SCP's letter http://church-of-ouzo.com/pdf/spiritual ... rfeits.pdf on "The Ouzo Prophecy" http://church-of-ouzo.com/pdf/ouzo-prophecy.pdf, that the spokesman suddenly became insane?

throw in in the towel on religion

Why would God help those who have demanded that God get out of their lives, for many years, and good Christians have said nothing about it.

osgart wrote:
my point is that there is evil in the world. shooting up a theatre or children's school.

who does the punishment? God or humans

you might say humans subject to God's will are doing this job.

God didn't help those little children.

So therefore God is a delusion.

Osgart, you have to listen to your inner voice and stop trying to intellectualise this by yourself, to understand the problem of God's ways...will only come through years and years and years of devoted study of absolute truth...are you prepared to put in that amount of time and devotion, are you willing to make that self sacrifice?


God are those children.

There is only God.

God has to sacrifice his little children ....really himself, to show himself how to love and live a moral just life by example. God died and came back to life in the flesh to show that the immortal one lives on in all of us..his children, really himself. That's what the Jesus sacrifice on the cross was all about.

Jesus who is God in the flesh declared: I Am the Light of the World, the Truth Shall Make You Free. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Meaning you have to make that sacrifice yourself, the one you imagine yourself to be..aka the ego. Only then are you to enter the kingdom of your real self, the eternal one.

If you believe yourself to be separate from the whole which is impossible then you will be the cause of your own suffering. When people kill, it's because they are not aligned with the truth of their real being...which is there is only God here and no other. We punish ourselves for believing we are separate... no one else is doing that to us, only us ourself, there is only self.....the devil which is God in disguise does a very good job by preferring to rule the earth rather than serve in heaven.

That's the delusion. ..we cannot server two masters, we cannot serve God and the ego, one of them has to die. If the ego rules then God is unavailable to help, but if the real master is allowed to rule, then he is available all the time ..and that is our inner conscience, screaming out to us constantly to help ourselves.... but are we ever listening to ourself ??

God is in the world but not of it....he has overcome the world and so can you.

While in the world of opposites of good V not good...it is wise to trust in the master and at the same time don't forget to tie up your camel.

God limits his power by becoming a man...but please note, that the immortal one cannot die. No one has ever died in the making of this human story...this is very hard for the ego to grasp.

osgart wrote: Because it is simply the unknown.

What is the 'it' here, that is simply the unknown?

osgart wrote:... because it's all the great unknown

Again what is the 'it' that is supposedly all the great unknown?

osgart wrote: and nobody has the definitive answers as to why we are here or what the cause and nature of being is.

Are you absolutely 100% sure of this?

osgart wrote:religion and naturalists both have contributed to human progress. And yet they both operate on belief and conviction from belief

Why we are here and what the cause and nature of being is, is found and rediscovered AFTER operating on full openness and not operating on belief and conviction from belief.