Philosophy Now Forum

Life is uncertain and no matter what advances we have in science, medicines we are helpless mortals. From the day we are on this planet our time remains limited and we will have to follow the course of all those who died previous to us. What we have seen will be immaterial at the end of the day. Both believers and nonbelievers will have to meet with the same fate. That is why our ancestors tried to dig into the question of existence to unearth the truth about life and death. They took refuge in metaphysics which urges us to go beyond what is seen. In Hinduism what is seen is untrue, an illusion or Maya. If we delve into Vedanta it does not refer to even a God the way most religions advocate. God in Vedanta is not a body or entity. God is nameless, formless and does not take part even in creation, though Brahma is assigned to the work of creation He is still not the ultimate God. Vedanta says God and man are integral and there is no duality. We do not have to seek further for enlightenment. The profoundest truth we have to discover for ourselves is we will have to know who we are. To know who we are we will have to shed all our identities. Our real nature that remains after dropping is Brahma. Brahma is within us
The light that shines above all else, in the highest heaven, beyond all worlds, the same light shines within you also.

— Chandogya Upanishad 3.13.7
The reason I am referring to the quote of Vedanta is Vedanta has gone beyond all religious books. It is vast and incomprehensible. But it is certain one gets much wiser after going through the Vedas and Upanishads and comes closer to enlightenment.

haribol acharya wrote:Life is uncertain and no matter what advances we have in science, medicines we are helpless mortals. From the day we are on this planet our time remains limited and we will have to follow the course of all those who died previous to us. What we have seen will be immaterial at the end of the day. Both believers and nonbelievers will have to meet with the same fate. That is why our ancestors tried to dig into the question of existence to unearth the truth about life and death. They took refuge in metaphysics which urges us to go beyond what is seen. In Hinduism what is seen is untrue, an illusion or Maya. If we delve into Vedanta it does not refer to even a God the way most religions advocate. God in Vedanta is not a body or entity. God is nameless, formless and does not take part even in creation, though Brahma is assigned to the work of creation He is still not the ultimate God. Vedanta says God and man are integral and there is no duality. We do not have to seek further for enlightenment. The profoundest truth we have to discover for ourselves is we will have to know who we are. To know who we are we will have to shed all our identities. Our real nature that remains after dropping is Brahma. Brahma is within us
The light that shines above all else, in the highest heaven, beyond all worlds, the same light shines within you also.

— Chandogya Upanishad 3.13.7
The reason I am referring to the quote of Vedanta is Vedanta has gone beyond all religious books. It is vast and incomprehensible. But it is certain one gets much wiser after going through the Vedas and Upanishads and comes closer to enlightenment.

Thanks haribol acharya for your thread starter....Vedanta is indeed the mother of all truths, it is the truth that cannot be known by mortal man. When man goes beyond the concept of man he enters the formless and invisible realm of ''what is'' which cannot be named or known by any human thought created theory. It is beyond any human idea. Ironically ''thought'' can point the unreality of human individual consciousness back to the real I-Amness, which is the only true reality being aware of every thought in the first place,this is known as "being aware of awareness...but no man can do that, The I-Amness does that...and yet it is the thought that 'I am' that thinks it is the one doing it. In truth ''thoughts' don't do anything apart from dissolve into the ocean of onenesss which is the real doer and knower which is immediately available right now and always now ..that one is everything.

One can simply realise the artificially thought induced structure of an apparent individual consciousness is illusory and not the true I-Amness which is aware of every thought...The true Consciousness itself ("I-Amness") is immediately available at all times. In other words, right now "I am" aware of these words on the screen...I am not the individual consciousness that is aware of these words on the screen, except as a thought ..now that sounds paradoxical? yes maybe, but it can be realised that there is only ''what is'' which is this immediate ''EVERYTHING'' being awareness right here and now.. which is the nameless ''no thing'' prior to the illusory name it gives itself. Anything named causes an illusory division of that which can never be divided. So the ''what is'' is both EVERYTHING AND NO PARTICULAR THING.

The mistake is to say I am the named thing because that can be seen, whereas the unseen invisible true nature of being is ignored in favour of the seen and this is quite natural..but what we are is the invisible awareness...appearing as that which is visible. So here we can realise that what actually appears as visible is the illusion, and that which can't be seen, is the real self, we are in truth invisible to ourselves because there is only SELF which is everything. That which can be seen will appear and disappear, but that which is invisible does not appear or disappear, it is always.

Vedanta points us back to that immortal being that is EVERYTHING ALL AT ONCE & NOT ONE SINGLE THING INDEPENDENT OF THAT.

Most people reject what they can't see, and it's a truth that can't be handled by the illusory mind itself.

It's all the genius work of God itself ...self evidently safe and well here now always this love where it's always been as there is no where and no thing else.

Dontaskme wrote: Most people reject what they can't see, and it's a truth that can't be handled by the illusory mind itself.

Rubbish. There are plenty of things we can't see but know exist, based on evidence. Air, protons, neutrons, radiation, radio waves, gravity..

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:

Dontaskme wrote: Most people reject what they can't see, and it's a truth that can't be handled by the illusory mind itself.

Rubbish. There are plenty of things we can't see but know exist, based on evidence. Air, protons, neutrons, radiation, radio waves, gravity..

Concepts are known, but can the knower of the known be known? ... can the seer of the seen be seen? ..that's the main point in question here?

That's what Vedanta is referring to in this thread. In other words, who or what knows, who or what sees, who or what experiences reality? can that one be known, seen, experienced?

Effects are experienced in the experience, but the experiencer or cause cannot be experienced or be an isolated individual experience simply because there is no thing other than the experience itself which is known via an interpretation via the conceptual medium of human language which just happens to be mental activity which just happens to be electrical impulses of the brain which just happens to be called the mind, but can the mind be seen?

The mind cannot be seen no more than gravity can be seen. However, the effects of gravity is here. But gravity is just a known concept, one might as well swap the word gravity for the word God and say God instead of gravity. There is no one here to know anything at all, there is just the imagined concept of what's here.
Anything known about reality is nothing more than a mental interpretation by an assumed known conceptual identity. Any known conceptual identity cannot know or see itself, without creating a second knower or seer, which is impossible. A concept cannot know or see another concept. That would be like the light trying to shine on itself.

An object known such as a table or a human person cannot see or know itself...only the concept is known...objects are imagined things.. things are only known as they are imagined to be by that which is not a thing. The human mind which is an assumed thing known, but is in fact actually unknowable even to itself has trouble getting a handle on that truth. Life itself knows how to live and function, this immediate knowing itself does not need a mind in order to be what it is. The mind has evolved to step in only to differentiate between being and non-being, for to be what it is cannot be known without knowing what it isn't. This is the illusory apparent dual nature of what is actually real nondual reality.

Reality is what it is, and it's not imagined, it is known in the experience. But what is imagined is that there is a knower and the known. Or that there is a seer and the seen.Or that there is an experiencer and the experience.

If you want to reject what I'm saying, then try to refute what I've just said by putting forward your own rebuttal. Then allow me to correct you.