Philosophy Now Forum

So I've been sitting here thinking as I was eating a huge piece of buttered bread, and I think I finally understand it all now. Pain and suffering are the purpose of these lives we live. We are here as punishment after all and we most certainly are not loved. We will all age and die, so that in the end we may experience the loss of the people and things that brought us happiness. Why do we experience happiness? We rise only to fall, therefore we experience happiness so that we know what it is like to lose it. The more you have in life the more you have to lose. The more people you become attached to the more hurt you will probably be when they die or when you die. Life is designed to break us of body, mind, and spirit.

Nothing good comes to you in life without a price to pay later. Nothing in life is free, not even love. Even if love is or was free there are still consequences to pay for it. Love is conditional. In my view, love can be very evil, because it can drive people to do insane things. When you love someone, you value their existence more than other people. Should we all love each other or at least attempt to love each other equally? Most forms of love are based on attraction in the physical, social, and mental areas of life. People are not equal in terms of the physical, social, and mental areas of life, and we are all different when it comes to what we are attracted to.

Life is evil, mainly because the very basis of it requires us to kill and/or destroy other life to sustain our own. One is all, and all is one however. We are all made up of the universe around us, and if we are all one in the grand scheme of things then what does it matter that our material bodies change form or fuel the form of another being? People hold this illusion that life is grand and holy however, which by my perception I see nothing but brutality in the very basis of it. All we have are beings of flesh trying to pass on their genes to the next generations. We are nothing more than sentient beasts in my opinion. Some beasts are just more capable of higher levels of thought and feeling than others.

Purpose is found in the immediacy of the moment. Just count the lives involved in putting buttered bread into your mouth and you see the purpose of those lives to you, and yours to them, and the significance of your own purpose in that natural chain of consumption and need. Take a drive and you’ll eventually find folks who need you to get out of their way, because you’re driving 80 mph in the passing lane, on a road which is involved in the purpose of bread delivered to the plate fresh, and even if one bakes and churns, then there’s still a chain of ingredients purposed by need.

Osric wrote:So I've been sitting here thinking as I was eating a huge piece of buttered bread, and I think I finally understand it all now.

I must confess that I've always tended to take bread and butter for granted, it's never occurred to me to spend any time thinking about it. I did once become fascinated by a jam donut but I lost interest as soon as I'd finished eating it.

Little children are much the same in that way, although mindfulness does open up new vistas of guilt that imaginatively vividtize the slick animal fat greasing up into layers inside the artery walls.

“Eskimo: 'If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?' Priest: 'No, not if you did not know.' Eskimo: 'Then why did you tell me?'"
- Annie Dillard

Osric wrote:So I've been sitting here thinking as I was eating a huge piece of buttered bread, and I think I finally understand it all now. Pain and suffering are the purpose of these lives we live.

No man, life has no purpose.

We are here as punishment after all and we most certainly are not loved.

Punishment? Before borned? wtf. And loved, before borning? How? You mean by god or something? And what do you understand by love? For the common use of the word in a simple way, a high percentage of people can be "loved". It's not very difficult.

We will all age and die

Yep, too many stupid humans to stop that.

so that in the end we may experience the loss of the people and things that brought us happiness.

Well, you can die before ending your donut or before your family or partner or friends or cats.

Why do we experience happiness? We rise only to fall

Why do we experience pain? we fall only to rise. Look it's not a choice, you just feel, it has no purpose.

therefore we experience happiness so that we know what it is like to lose it.

Not necesarily, but, well, pain exists: Sorry, god's plan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McqoFdTFWj4

The more you have in life the more you have to lose.

Nah. You can always be worse, and you can always be better. Happiness and sadness don't work with infinite time and absolute data, nobody is happy or sad for a long time without feeling the oposite.

The more people you become attached to the more hurt you will probably be when they die or when you die. Life is designed to break us of body, mind, and spirit.

Uh, if dying is all they do, hell, where do I have to sign? But people are generally a piece of crap, and they'll do worse things than dying. And... well, life is something with pain, and you have to eat in order to survive etc. But you can eat! It's not a torture chamber. It's just a joke, if you want, or a serious fight, if you want.

Nothing good comes to you in life without a price to pay later.

You are completely wrong, you can pay before. And some things, like breathing air, have a low cost for many people, probably you too .

Nothing in life is free, not even love.

Wtf. Did you said love with even? Hahahahaha. Well, many children have their parents love without any effort but survaving, and many people have their partner love without any effort but the needed for sex, or doing other things you like, and many people have friends just because they... blablabla. The "even" part is the funny part.

Even if love is or was free there are still consequences to pay for it. Love is conditional. In my view, love can be very evil, because it can drive people to do insane things. When you love someone, you value their existence more than other people. Should we all love each other or at least attempt to love each other equally? Most forms of love are based on attraction in the physical, social, and mental areas of life. People are not equal in terms of the physical, social, and mental areas of life, and we are all different when it comes to what we are attracted to.

Hmmm... ok, now it seems like we are getting to the part that really is your problem, not all that crap about suffering blabla. Yep, you have grown, and now you want something more than your parents love. And nobody is runing after you when you scream that life is suffering and you don't want to take the effort of breathing. Think about it XD. We are not equal, and, talking about "romantic love", in many cases, the biggest problem, I would say, is how easy is to bring life to this rock, how many people have babies nearly with no discrimination. But, well, it's like it is, people seem to think with the thing inside their trousers.

Life is evil, mainly because the very basis of it requires us to kill and/or destroy other life to sustain our own.

Ahm... where do you put the line? Plants? Bacteria? Uf, it's difficult to live without killing anything, even if you could eat only chemical products made in a lab, they would have been created with bacterias. And lot of life forms attacking your body die when you answer. But... you don't give a fuck XD. Ah... the sheep I ate tonight was delicious.

One is all, and all is one however. We are all made up of the universe around us, and if we are all one in the grand scheme of things then what does it matter that our material bodies change form or fuel the form of another being?

Yeah, yeah, you are depressed, I get it. But you know it's just a feeling, is this a scream for help? then do it literally. You already know that you can't believe all this shit, when you were younger you didn't gave a fuck, I' sure of it. So, what's your real problem? That's my advice.

People hold this illusion that life is grand and holy however, which by my perception I see nothing but brutality in the very basis of it.

We don't have the same life, stop looking at others too much. Yeah, it has brutality, and too many retarded people, etc, and, ey, you can always go out if you don't like it.

All we have are beings of flesh trying to pass on their genes to the next generations.

Nope. Not everybody want that XD. Do you want that? Is this all about that? holy crap.

We are nothing more than sentient beasts in my opinion.

Hmm, that's not a bad definition after all XD.

Some beasts are just more capable of higher levels of thought and feeling than others.

Yep, that's true too.

Osric wrote:I think I finally understand it all now.

Well, what you've described is ONE view of countless potential views. So an interesting question might be: How does this particular view serve you? What's the payoff to you for seeing things this way? It seems unlikely that you're seeing things any more clearly than any of the other countless potential views -- so why this one for you? What do you get out of it?

Osric wrote:We will all age and die, so that in the end we may experience the loss of the people and things that brought us happiness.

May?

Osric wrote:Life is evil, mainly because the very basis of it requires us to kill and/or destroy other life to sustain our own. One is all, and all is one however. We are all made up of the universe around us, and if we are all one in the grand scheme of things then what does it matter that our material bodies change form or fuel the form of another being? People hold this illusion that life is grand and holy however, which by my perception I see nothing but brutality in the very basis of it. All we have are beings of flesh trying to pass on their genes to the next generations. We are nothing more than sentient beasts in my opinion. Some beasts are just more capable of higher levels of thought and feeling than others.

All fair enough observations IMO, despite protestations from the gallery (that's what they're not paid for).

The idea of the universe being all one thing is interesting because it seems to me that that "one thing" has always been in the process of turning itself into many things. With the separation of galaxies with dark energy, in a sense each galaxy will increasingly become its own universe. Maybe humans will form institutions run by AI that will split off from the rest of humanity in the same way humans split off from nature? It would be hard to blame them if they did

The purpose of these opinions is an attempt to inspire change in people and the world around me. I see so many apathetic people, and sheep people that is drives me insane. Someone once told me that in order to change the world around you, be that change and try to influence as many people as possible. I was simply trying to address what I perceived to be some core problems with our existence. If nothing is ever said, then how would people know how I feel and think? Conflict is good, to me conflict will either lead to regression or progression. So bombard me with opinions and perceptions. I seek growth on a personal level as well.

Greta wrote:

Osric wrote:Life is evil, mainly because the very basis of it requires us to kill and/or destroy other life to sustain our own. One is all, and all is one however. We are all made up of the universe around us, and if we are all one in the grand scheme of things then what does it matter that our material bodies change form or fuel the form of another being? People hold this illusion that life is grand and holy however, which by my perception I see nothing but brutality in the very basis of it. All we have are beings of flesh trying to pass on their genes to the next generations. We are nothing more than sentient beasts in my opinion. Some beasts are just more capable of higher levels of thought and feeling than others.

All fair enough observations IMO, despite protestations from the gallery (that's what they're not paid for).

The idea of the universe being all one thing is interesting because it seems to me that that "one thing" has always been in the process of turning itself into many things. With the separation of galaxies with dark energy, in a sense each galaxy will increasingly become its own universe. Maybe humans will form institutions run by AI that will split off from the rest of humanity in the same way humans split off from nature? It would be hard to blame them if they did

Some day we'll know what do you think alone, without talking about "biology" and all that crap, if you think something.

I have a great deal of empathy for those that suffer. I can't comprehend how people can just sit by and do nothing or pass the responsibility on to someone else. Obviously the people in charge of things are not doing their role or can't keep up with all the suffering in the world. In order to make things better for EVERYONE, not just a few people, there needs to be dramatic change. Such change needs to take place in various governments around the world. Some beneficial changes or improvements could be in infrastructure, education, and economic systems. You fix the problems and the symptoms should go away. It appears to me people only treat the symptoms in their attempts to fix things.

Change should involve anyone and everyone in my opinion, mainly because we are all sharing this universe together. Representation is okay, but we just need to make sure we are getting the right people to represent us. Most of the people in politics are not out to make changes, but in fact make money or ensure some of their own agendas.

With my earlier post I was in a very negative state of mind I will admit, but that is was only because I felt hopeless and broken. I still feel that way, but I fight on, and some days are better than others. I know all to well that people are a limited amount of energy and time they are willing to devout to changing the world around them. All I'm asking is take a little more effort to make the world a better place for everyone. Don't let evil people represent you in politics, after all, all they have in mind is themselves.

Just because something could be worse, does not make it acceptable. I also think that most of our current lives are predatory, in that we must in some ways prey off each other in order to thrive. Such is the way of most of the current economic systems we have in place. The very phrase, "to capitalize", means to prosper off of someone else. Capitalism is basically a predatory system in which one person or a group of people benefit from the unfortunate situations of other people or groups. Many nations take advantage and often orchestrate the unfortunate events that take place so that they may benefit from it.

Changing governments or political systems is not easy.

How about exchanging good and useful insights to alleviate suffering taking place ?

If you have benign growths on your skin (which can later become nasty cancers) try to remove them with curcuma concentrate. I am doing it now. Do people in India have benign growths at all ? They eat a lot of curcuma. Or intestinal cancer ?

Lacewing told me here that tea tree oil can also remove benign growths from the skin. I keep it in mind but at the moment just watch the miraculous effects of curcuma extract.

What can you share with us, Mr Osiris, to make a little difference in the sorrowful history of mankind ?

Some people might have discovered what works to become less depressed. Please report !

Osric wrote:All I'm asking is take a little more effort to make the world a better place for everyone.

Osric, I understand your frustration. Most of us probably have such frustrations. Is the problem that people don't know or haven't thought of this? Is the problem that people need to be told? Wouldn't the people who are inclined to do so, be doing so? And, are the people who are NOT inclined to do so, going to change because of your frustrated plea?

Please don't be discouraged by these questions. We can ask such questions of everyone. I think it can be helpful to identify who the frustrated plea is aimed at and why? Is it a world that we visualize outside of our own head... and do we imagine that our plea is our "effort/role" to improve that world?

Osric wrote:Don't let evil people represent you in politics, after all, all they have in mind is themselves.

Again, who are you talking to? Who would knowingly do this... and how will they be swayed by your plea?

Perhaps you are echoing what most people already want -- it's not that they haven't thought of it. So are you speaking to yourself along with all of humankind? OR... (and here's the question I think is most interesting)... might you be separating yourself out... in order to "tell us" these things, and speaking at "the rest of humankind" from your place of frustration? And, is THIS separatism not perhaps the very soil that all of humankind's conflicts and troubled differences grow out of? How do we stop believing and reinforcing that we are separate from each other and from the rest of life? Even with the best of intentions... and in the smallest individual ways... we perpetuate it, like so many before us. Such a thing might be worth noticing, don't you think?

Might our insight and potential broaden if we focus on how connected everything is? And explore the implications of "where/what we are" based on THAT?

Conflict, from my observations is one way in which people come to a solution to a problem. Sometimes it may not even be a solution, but a path or side people take in an attempt to bring a new form of unity and order to their lives. Then again, some people create conflict to bring down order and unity. But in my case I think the conflict I cause is more of a mental stimulation or thought provoking conversation. Why do I feel the need to do this? Because I see corruption and then I see people who feel like they can't do anything about it. The more people talk about something and spread information, then there is more of a possibility that people can be on the same page about something. I'm sharing my thoughts and feelings not only to scan the audience to see how much interest there is, but also to vent so I myself don't explode with rage. Then again, maybe I'm just trying to cause conflict in hopes that people will take sides and then have issues with what is going on in the world instead of being so hopeless or passive about things.

So my message is not to go out and cause violence, but to go out and talk to people. Talk to ANYONE and try to learn from them and enlighten them at the same time. We have things we can learn from each other, after all nobody knows everything. I think the people of this world have grown complacent, broken, and almost too dependent on representation to lead their lives. I will admit, a good majority of people seem like cattle to me, and I want to get them out of that cattle mentality. I understand that doing such a thing could be dangerous, mainly because some people are controlled by a fragile system that fails to begin with. However, if you take away their system that they have invested so much time and energy into, then their whole world seems to end. These people can be dangerous and without anything or anyone to guide them they will do horrible things to others. So I understand that a level of control is needed to make the masses feel like they are safe and in control of their own lives.

We have people of varying experiences, intellect, and perceptions. So what are we ruled by because of this? Most people it is fear, I see if in my daily life. There are some people who agree that basic things should be enforced and protected though. A system based on fear, control, and punishment. I will admit, with where most people are at mentally, that much is probably needed. This is what we have in most place throughout the world though. We are all cattle just being herded around until the slaughter. My solution to this is a higher level of education for everyone and giving people more active roles in their communities. What I would like to see also is a more meaningful existence for everyone. People live repetitive lives, mainly to put wealth into the hands of the already wealthy and powerful. It almost seems like we are slaves to an extent. Slaves to ourselves because of the little scraps we are thrown, which we are told to be thankful for. Everything is in place so that we are controlled and subservient.

I'm sure people already know about the majority of what goes on in the world, but it seems to me that people just don't care or are in denial. Everything is interconnected, and very fragile, especially with nuclear weapons. Weapons in general are a dictator's best friends when in the hands of their followers and not in the hands of their enemies. I think violence and weapons are a major hindrance to growth of society, and wish there was a way to abolish them. I wish people could spend hours debating with each other, even days, weeks, or years without resorting to anger and violence. People are afraid to speak, even though here in the United States we supposedly have freedom of speech. They are afraid of being humiliated, or worse things could even happen.

Why do people resort to anger and violence when something they are presented with challenges their way of thought or way of life? People are afraid of change. Maybe they are that simplistic with their current mentality that they perceive they are in the right when they act out. Thought provoking words should never be met with violence. Yes, I do think I am separated from the rest of you at times, but only because of the actions taken against me. I have been hurt, humiliated, and broken by those who I thought were my friends and family. My perceptions have been shattered more times than I can remember. I've lost almost everything I value many times throughout my life. There is no such thing as true freedom, except to those who are willing to pay the consequences.

Osric wrote:I have a great deal of empathy for those that suffer. I can't comprehend how people can just sit by and do nothing or pass the responsibility on to someone else.

Ask. You smell like shit.

Obviously the people in charge of things are not doing their role or can't keep up with all the suffering in the world.

Fiirst sentence, "I can't comprehend how people past responsability", second sentence "Obviously the people in charge are not doing their role".

Are you fucking kidding me? I'm happy seeing your suffering just now.

In order to make things better for EVERYONE, not just a few people, there needs to be dramatic change.

Yeah, a metaphisic change, that's a big one.

Such change needs to take place in various governments around the world.

I'm going to puke...

Change should involve anyone and everyone in my opinion, mainly because we are all sharing this universe together.

Yeah, but other people called goverment should do it.

Representation is okay, but we just need to make sure we are getting the right people to represent us. Most of the people in politics are not out to make changes, but in fact make money or ensure some of their own agendas.

Representation is not ok. You can represent yourself. If you can't enjoy this mess, my wish is to become another bastard using people like you selling the lies you are spreading, because you make me sick and I can't erase people like you from existence, but I can use people like you to eat delicious food. If only I could stop having hope in your brain...

I know all to well that people are a limited amount of energy and time they are willing to devout to changing the world around them. All I'm asking is take a little more effort to make the world a better place for everyone. Don't let evil people represent you in politics, after all, all they have in mind is themselves.

Pay it. Fight for it. Don't expect it to happen with magic, or you'll be forever the piece fo shit you are right now.

Just because something could be worse, does not make it acceptable. I also think that most of our current lives are predatory, in that we must in some ways prey off each other in order to thrive. Such is the way of most of the current economic systems we have in place.

Sadly, that's not like that, it's not economics, is human nature. I can lie to you and use you, or I can be honest. You can make a great thing for humanity and don't put a price (and you'll die alone being poor, like Tesla), or you can sell... I don't know, parfum made with water and oranges, but with an exotic name, and sell it with a big price, then you'll be rich, cause people are stupid, and they only want other people to give them things, and they never have enough. It's not captalism, it's what people want, people can pay what they want, and live like they want, no matter if a low percentage of people say other thing. But most of them are stupid enoguh to move only in tradition, hell, the gold price has no sense, many things don't have any sense, but there is something sure: Human stupidity. They'll keep doing the things they blame, causing their own problems, and screaming. Nobody can change that.

And you don't give a shit.