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Age of the Universebahman wrote:I have been struggling with this problem for a while. It is difficult for me to even explain it to you. Lets assume that universe has a beginning whether it is created or it is result of big bang. There is however no before before beginning which means we cannot possibly define any reference point to measure the beginning from. This means that the age of universe can be anything which is paradoxical.
I am quite aware of that and that is why the situation is paradoxical. If you take your reference point as now then you could reach the beginning by going back in time by amount of age of universe. However, there could be no now without beginning so you should in principle be able to reach from beginning to now by going forward in time by amount of age of universe. There is however a problem here as it is illustrated in OP which states that there is no reference point before creation or big bang point to define the beginning from so the age of universe can be anything. So we are dealing with a paradox.Ginkgo wrote:Age of the Universebahman wrote: I have been struggling with this problem for a while. It is difficult for me to even explain it to you. Lets assume that universe has a beginning whether it is created or it is result of big bang. There is however no before before beginning which means we cannot possibly define any reference point to measure the beginning from. This means that the age of universe can be anything which is paradoxical.
In physical cosmology, the age of the universe is the time elapsed since the Big Bang. The current measurement of the age of the universe is 13.799±0.021 billion years ((13.799±0.021)×109 years) within the Lambda-CDM concordance model.[1][2] The uncertainty of 21 million years has been obtained by the agreement of a number of scientific research projects, such as microwave background radiation measurements by the Planck satellite, the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe and other probes. Measurements of the cosmic background radiation give the cooling time of the universe since the Big Bang,[3] and measurements of the expansion rate of the universe can be used to calculate its approximate age by extrapolating backwards in time.
Wikipedia
bahman wrote:I am quite aware of that and that is why the situation is paradoxical. If you take your reference point as now then you could reach the beginning by going back in time by amount of age of universe. However, there could be no now without beginning so you should in principle be able to reach from beginning to now by going forward in time by amount of age of universe. There is however a problem here as it is illustrated in OP which states that there is no reference point before creation or big bang point to define the beginning from so the age of universe can be anything. So we are dealing with a paradox.Ginkgo wrote:Age of the Universebahman wrote: I have been struggling with this problem for a while. It is difficult for me to even explain it to you. Lets assume that universe has a beginning whether it is created or it is result of big bang. There is however no before before beginning which means we cannot possibly define any reference point to measure the beginning from. This means that the age of universe can be anything which is paradoxical.
In physical cosmology, the age of the universe is the time elapsed since the Big Bang. The current measurement of the age of the universe is 13.799±0.021 billion years ((13.799±0.021)×109 years) within the Lambda-CDM concordance model.[1][2] The uncertainty of 21 million years has been obtained by the agreement of a number of scientific research projects, such as microwave background radiation measurements by the Planck satellite, the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe and other probes. Measurements of the cosmic background radiation give the cooling time of the universe since the Big Bang,[3] and measurements of the expansion rate of the universe can be used to calculate its approximate age by extrapolating backwards in time.
Wikipedia
That is correct. Time and place only came into existence with the Big Bang.A_Seagull wrote:bahman wrote:I am quite aware of that and that is why the situation is paradoxical. If you take your reference point as now then you could reach the beginning by going back in time by amount of age of universe. However, there could be no now without beginning so you should in principle be able to reach from beginning to now by going forward in time by amount of age of universe. There is however a problem here as it is illustrated in OP which states that there is no reference point before creation or big bang point to define the beginning from so the age of universe can be anything. So we are dealing with a paradox.Ginkgo wrote:
Age of the Universe
In physical cosmology, the age of the universe is the time elapsed since the Big Bang. The current measurement of the age of the universe is 13.799±0.021 billion years ((13.799±0.021)×109 years) within the Lambda-CDM concordance model.[1][2] The uncertainty of 21 million years has been obtained by the agreement of a number of scientific research projects, such as microwave background radiation measurements by the Planck satellite, the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe and other probes. Measurements of the cosmic background radiation give the cooling time of the universe since the Big Bang,[3] and measurements of the expansion rate of the universe can be used to calculate its approximate age by extrapolating backwards in time.
Wikipedia
Time is but a co-ordinate. It only came into existence with the big-bang.
But an intelligent individual consciousness will infer that time (and space) existed before the flowering of their consciousness.Impenitent wrote:time and place came in existence with individual consciousness...
homo mensura...
-Imp
Why do you think it is paradoxical?bahman wrote:I have been struggling with this problem for a while. It is difficult for me to even explain it to you. Lets assume that universe has a beginning whether it is created or it is result of big bang. There is however no before before beginning which means we cannot possibly define any reference point to measure the beginning from. This means that the age of universe can be anything which is paradoxical.
leaps of faith are still leaps of faithA_Seagull wrote:But an intelligent individual consciousness will infer that time (and space) existed before the flowering of their consciousness.Impenitent wrote:time and place came in existence with individual consciousness...
homo mensura...
-Imp
There is no paradox, the Universe is approximately 13.8 billion years old. Before the Big Bang there was no Universe, there was no time, space or matter. So if the Universe did not exist before the Big Bang, it can only be the age since the Big Bang, the age of the Universe is fixed and can't be just anything.bahman wrote: This means that the age of universe can be anything which is paradoxical.
That I know. The problem is that there is no before before big-bang hence there is no reference point that allows us do define beginning which means that the age of universe can be anything.A_Seagull wrote: Time is but a co-ordinate. It only came into existence with the big-bang.
It is paradoxical because if you consider now as a reference point then you can have an idea about beginning by going back in time by the age of universe. The problem is that there cannot be any now without beginning but that age of universe can be anything if you use beginning as a reference point.Hobbes' Choice wrote:Why do you think it is paradoxical?bahman wrote: I have been struggling with this problem for a while. It is difficult for me to even explain it to you. Lets assume that universe has a beginning whether it is created or it is result of big bang. There is however no before before beginning which means we cannot possibly define any reference point to measure the beginning from. This means that the age of universe can be anything which is paradoxical.
This is not a leap of faith.Impenitent wrote:leaps of faith are still leaps of faithA_Seagull wrote:But an intelligent individual consciousness will infer that time (and space) existed before the flowering of their consciousness.Impenitent wrote:time and place came in existence with individual consciousness...
homo mensura...
-Imp
-Imp
This is not a paradox at all.bahman wrote:It is paradoxical because if you consider now as a reference point then you can have an idea about beginning by going back in time by the age of universe. The problem is that there cannot be any now without beginning but that age of universe can be anything if you use beginning as a reference point.Hobbes' Choice wrote:Why do you think it is paradoxical?bahman wrote: I have been struggling with this problem for a while. It is difficult for me to even explain it to you. Lets assume that universe has a beginning whether it is created or it is result of big bang. There is however no before before beginning which means we cannot possibly define any reference point to measure the beginning from. This means that the age of universe can be anything which is paradoxical.