Philosophy Now Forum

As human beings, we all have needs. We need food, shelter, clothing; we need those basic pleasures that keep us happy. We need affection. We need love. We need friends. But why is it that we human beings don’t stop at fulfilling our need? Why is it that we are greedy? One home is not enough, we need an extra home and then few more investments and then some more homes to build our wealth. We need money not just enough to take care of us but deposits, bank balances, investments that make our ego bloom. We need possessions. We need stuff that we can impress the world with - brands, cars, gadgets.

Not just one car and one gadget that we need but there are people who have dozens of cars. People have gadgets of which they have lost count of and worst of all, brands, brands that inflates people’s ego to make them feel that they are superior.

Why are we greedy? What is the reason?

If only we realize the truth of - Who we are? Why we are here? What is the purpose of life? What is death? What are relationships? If only we truly ask these questions and introspect deeply on them, we would find the answers.

We keep wanting more and more and more, but have we ever stopped to ask what will happen to this more and more after life is no more?

We are unable to be content, to be fulfilled, but have we ever thought why is it that we are so passionate that there is no end to our need? Why do we lack contentment and fulfillment? If only we can stop running and start thinking, we will get true answers and instead of trying to be happy with our greed, we will probably be content with what we need.

AiR

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................................Human beings are selfish, mean, & stupid.






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For most of the past 200,000 years humans have grubbed around, half-starved, constantly in danger. Only natural then when resources were plentiful that humans would hoard those resources. Greed is the name given to that perfectly natural impulse.

Why is this thread in the "Philosophy of Religion" forum?
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henry quirk wrote:For most of the past 200,000 years humans have grubbed around, half-starved, constantly in danger. Only natural then when resources were plentiful that humans would hoard those resources. Greed is the name given to that perfectly natural impulse.

Exactly. Evolutionarily, and going far back prior to the appearance of homo sapiens phylogenetically, we're creatures that needed to keep acquiring things, keep striving to gain food, shelter, etc. in order to stay alive. It's only relatively recently that there are people who can avoid having to struggle much to maintain those things.

So rather than having to gather up enough nuts to make sure that we can stay alive for the winter, we can now collect stamps, or albums, or shoes, or whatever it might be. There's an instinctual drive to keep collecting/acquiring stuff, to keep striving to gain and be at a comfortable advantage for a bit.

AiR wrote:As human beings, we all have needs.

Do you think these 'needs' are different for each individual, or are the same for all?

AiR wrote:We need food, shelter, clothing; we need those basic pleasures that keep us happy.

I could call 'food' a basic pleasure, which keeps us happy, and in a sense it does keep us happy but I would much prefer to call 'food' a necessity, which keeps us alive. Food is a very basic and a necessary need. Food is an actual need, that is if we want to keep existing. Clothing is certainly not a need in order to keep existing, and exactly what kind of shelter is actually needed in order to keep existing can be so easily taken out of context.

AiR wrote: We need affection. We need love.

I agree we can not exist without them, but really we would need to discuss what is actually meant by 'affection' and 'love' first, for this to be fully understood by us here.

AiR wrote:We need friends.

We can exist without them, but really is there any purpose to existing without friends or others?

AiR wrote: But why is it that we human beings don’t stop at fulfilling our need?

I do not think we 'fulfill' our need. We are born naturally with needs. In order to keep living we just need those needs. By definition a 'need' at is most fundamental level means we can not live without it. There is nothing to fulfill in an individual sense of the word need. In the collective sense there is a fulfillment reached when we are fulfilling the needs of each and every other. By the way are the exact same needs for each and every one.

AiR wrote: Why is it that we are greedy?

Great question. But we would have to reach an agreement on what is meant by 'greedy' first.

Also, are you yourself also a 'greedy' person?

One home is not enough, we need an extra home and then few more investments and then some more homes to build our wealth. We need money not just enough to take care of us but deposits, bank balances, investments that make our ego bloom. We need possessions. We need stuff that we can impress the world with - brands, cars, gadgets.[/quote]

You have just committed the ultimate, dare I say it, 'sin' here. By using the word 'need', in each of these sentences, you have just "justified" (to yourself only) for those things. The very reason people are themselves greedy, without even ever realizing it, is because of the words we use/tell ourselves. When we use the word 'need', then we have just "justified", to ourselves at least, that we HAVE TO have it.

Also, you talk here like that is exactly what you yourself do, or are you just generalizing about human beings here? Because surely not all people (mis)behave like that in all of those circumstances.

AiR wrote:Not just one car and one gadget that we need but there are people who have dozens of cars. People have gadgets of which they have lost count of and worst of all, brands, brands that inflates people’s ego to make them feel that they are superior.

I noticed, like I have with all people, you are looking at what others do. If you really want your next two questions answered, then tell us WHY you, yourself, are greedy. WHAT is the reason you are a greedy person. That is, if you are a greedy person.

AiR wrote:Why are we greedy? What is the reason?

The reason WHY ALL of us adults are greedy is the same reason WHY we ALL think they way we do and do the things that we do.

To Me, this reason combined with our naturally evolved instinct to want more than we need is WHY we are greedy. I think that inquisitiveness evolved into human beings, which surpassed all other animals, has provided human beings with a desire to always want more then they actually need. Not necessarily to always just have and keep what is desired and wanted, but at least to desire and to want to try out and test new and more things.

AiR wrote:If only we realize the truth of - Who we are? Why we are here? What is the purpose of life? What is death?

Once the truth of these things are realized what you are seeking here is also discovered and fully understood.

Being able to discover and realize all these truths is just done with know-HOW. Once we know how to do any thing, then we can do it.

AiR wrote:What are relationships?

There are so many variables to this question.

AiR wrote: If only we truly ask these questions and introspect deeply on them, we would find the answers.

You tell us how to find the answers yet you come across as not yet(consciously) knowing these and other meaningful answers yet. What I found is the answers are not found just by asking questions, and then deeply introspecting on them, although that is part of how the answers are found. What I found is the other and first part to finding answers to meaningful questions is being Honest (about one's wrong doing), Open (about that wrong doing), and, seriously Wanting to change (that wrong doing), themselves.

Honesty, itself, is the key to unlocking all the, unconsciously already known, "mysteries" of Life.

AiR wrote:We keep wanting more and more and more, but have we ever stopped to ask what will happen to this more and more after life is no more?

I do not know about others but to Me there could be NO more and more after life is no more, and who could actually care if there is life no more? If there is life no more, then there is no more, anything. Person included.

A more productive question I would propose is what will happen to the life of human beings and to other beings and to earth, itself, if human beings keep wanting and TAKING more and more?

Have you ever stopped yourself to ask the question? If so, did you then answer it? If so, then what answer did you arrive at?

Also, what did you really mean by that question?

AiR wrote:We are unable to be content, to be fulfilled, but have we ever thought why is it that we are so passionate that there is no end to our need?

Have you ever thought about this? What answer did you arrive at?

The way we are going now I do not see how we could ever be content and fulfilled. Striving to gain what we superficially desire and want (greed) over what what we truly desire and want (need), which by the way actually destroys what we truly need in order to keep existing, will only lead to a sooner death for us all. We never could and never would be near contented nor fulfilled in this manner, but I do know a way that would make us ALL truly contented and really fulfilled. But how many people are really interested in this?

AiR wrote:Why do we lack contentment and fulfillment?

If in order to gain what we desire and want, only for our short time happiness, is destroying our one and only home, then the reason for the lack of contentment and fulfillment should be blatantly obvious.

True contentment and fulfillment could only reached and achieved when we are making things better. Not worse.

AiR wrote:If only we can stop running and start thinking, we will get true answers and instead of trying to be happy with our greed, we will probably be content with what we need.

AiR

So true, we can and WILL get true answers. But how often do we actually STOP, and just think about what we are actually doing, and think about what we are actually doing it for?

How many people here would say they are greedy? Most people, like to, and only talk about how those "other" people are greedy. You know - those people who are greedy. Not like you and me, we are not greedy, hey?

By the way here is a good question to start with to see if you/we will "probably" be content or not with what we need.

What is it actually you/we need?

What is it actually we need? And, is it the same or different for all of us?

If we can truly stop running and start thinking, then let us start with this question.

ken wrote:By the way here is a good question to start with to see if you/we will "probably" be content or not with what we need.

What is it actually you/we need?

What is it actually we need? And, is it the same or different for all of us?

If we can truly stop running and start thinking, then let us start with this question.

All you have to do is stop moving and observe yourself. When you next move, you will move because of need. Every movement after that will also be because of need. Everyone only moves because of need. When you see this in yourself then you need less, just as you needed more when you didn’t see the cause of motion.

Walker wrote:

ken wrote:By the way here is a good question to start with to see if you/we will "probably" be content or not with what we need.

What is it actually you/we need?

What is it actually we need? And, is it the same or different for all of us?

If we can truly stop running and start thinking, then let us start with this question.

All you have to do is stop moving and observe yourself.

I am not sure what you mean here. How do you propose one observes them self? Who/what exactly is doing the observing, and, who/what exactly are they observing?

Also, when you stopped moving and "observed yourself" what was the answer you came to regarding What is it exactly you/we need?

Walker wrote:When you next move, you will move because of need.

What do you mean by 'need'?

Walker wrote:Every movement after that will also be because of need.

So, if this body moves and in doing so shoots another body, then are you proposing it did this because it needed to?

Walker wrote:Everyone only moves because of need.

What do you mean by 'move' and 'need'?

Can I, for example, move my finger to change the television channels just because I want to instead of because I need to?

Walker wrote: When you see this in yourself then you need less, just as you needed more when you didn’t see the cause of motion.

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When I see what exactly in "myself"?

I still do not see the cause of the motion that you are alluding to here.

I also think that what we need, in order to keep existing as a species, never lessens nor is needed more. To Me what is needed just naturally exists, in the same way, always.

A thing only moves because it must, and then only as much as necessary.

This applies to all things, including you.

Every physical move you make, even the little ones, you make because you must.

Walker wrote:A thing only moves because it must, and then only as much as necessary.

This applies to all things, including you.

Every physical move you make, even the little ones, you make because you must.

Since you did not answer any of my previous questions, now what do you mean by 'must'? Is this the same as 'need'?

Are you suggesting if this body does not move, then it will die?

Die if you don’t move? That’s pretty obvious, unless you have handlers.

You just had to write that last posting, didn’t you. Why you had to write it is your business. That you had to write it is indisputable. The evidence is the existence of the words you wrote.

If you try to claim that you didn’t need to write that last posting, then you’re just playing games with yourself, aren’t you.

If you need just a few words to make a point, and you write far more than what is necessary to make the point, then you're being greedy in using up all those extra words that you didn’t need to make the point, but that you did need to satisfy some urge other than the point.

Or, maybe you're just being virtually loquacious.

Get the point?

Walker wrote:Die if you don’t move? That’s pretty obvious, unless you have handlers.

So you agree that if a body can not move, but it has handlers, then it can still live?

If so, then what were you actually trying to say?

What do you actually mean by "Everyone only moves because of need"?

I already asked you "Can I, for example, move my finger to change the television channels just because I want to instead of because I need to?" What is your answer to this question?

Walker wrote:You just had to write that last posting, didn’t you.

No.

Walker wrote: Why you had to write it is your business.

If you really want to know, then I will let you in on the secret.

Walker wrote: That you had to write it is indisputable.

This is not correct. All that is indisputable here is that I did write something. I did NOT have to. I could and would keep on living if I did not write that last posting or this posting or any other posting.

Walker wrote: The evidence is the existence of the words you wrote.

The only evidence is that I wrote something. But just because I wrote something that does NOT mean I "had to"?

I will ask you again to explain what do you mean by 'need', 'had to', and 'must'? Why do you propose that a body moves because it needs to, has to, and must? What has the movement of the body got to do with 'need'?

Walker wrote:If you try to claim that you didn’t need to write that last posting, then you’re just playing games with yourself, aren’t you.

I do not think so.

What game do you propose I am playing?

And, with who and how exactly?

Until you explain what you mean by 'need' I have absolutely no idea why I needed to, from your perspective, write that last posting. Obviously My definition of 'need' is a lot different than your definition.

Walker wrote:If you need just a few words to make a point, and you write far more than what is necessary to make the point, then you're being greedy in using up all those extra words that you didn’t need to make the point, but that you did need to satisfy some urge other than the point.

How is using more words than necessary, to make a point, greedy? What does 'greedy' mean to you?

By the way you not using any words to make your point is self-refuting your idea that "everyone only moves because of need". Unless of course you do not need to make your point clearly understood at all. I have absolutely no idea of what point you are trying to make.

You can explain in as much detail as you like how 'need' is associated with 'body movement'. I certainly will not accuse you of being greedy if you use more words than is necessary to make your point.

Also, how would any person know for sure how many words it would take to make a point clearly understood to and by another person, especially if they do not know the other person and in not face-to-face contact written words?

Walker wrote:Or, maybe you're just being virtually loquacious.

Get the point?

No, I do not get the point at all.

What do you mean by 'need', 'have to', and 'must'?

"I am, again, NOT here in this forum to express them. I am only here to learn how to express better."

I count eleven question marks in your last necessary posting. Obviously you’re feeling an irresistible need to express your inquisitiveness.