Philosophy Now Forum

I notice a lot of Hispanics openly (and proudly) identify themselves as Hispanics and I have seen some Mexicans burn the U.S. flag while waving the Mexican flag and nobody condemns such an open display of ethnic pride.

So my question is: is it unethical for white people to openly identify themselves as white? Why or why not is this ethical? Why is it ok for blacks and Hispanics but wrong for whites?

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Enigma3 wrote:I notice a lot of Hispanics openly (and proudly) identify themselves as Hispanics and I have seen some Mexicans burn the U.S. flag while waving the Mexican flag and nobody condemns such an open display of ethnic pride.

So my question is: is it unethical for white people to openly identify themselves as white? Why or why not is this ethical? Why is it ok for blacks and Hispanics but wrong for whites?

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Depends on the case. I don't know offhand if flag burning is against the law the way it used to be. It's a symbol of the US and no one gets physically hurt when it gets burned.

As far as ID goes, it used to be part of government surveys to inquire what race or background you are so I'd say it's okay to ID yourself on that basis.

Why do you differentiate between blacks and Hispanics as opposed to whites?

PhilX

Enigma3 wrote:I notice a lot of Hispanics openly (and proudly) identify themselves as Hispanics and I have seen some Mexicans burn the U.S. flag while waving the Mexican flag and nobody condemns such an open display of ethnic pride.

So my question is: is it unethical for white people to openly identify themselves as white? Why or why not is this ethical? Why is it ok for blacks and Hispanics but wrong for whites?

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I don't think it is wrong for whites, it is just unnecessary. Whites are the powerful majority of the US. So they really don't need to do anything. If they did, it would kind of be like shoving it in the faces of the others and scare the crap out of them because they will be wondering what the whites are up to. The rest are basically minorities with insecurities. So they need to show support for each other against perceived oppression or whatever they believe the problem is. It all seems to be purely psychological. Its human nature and if you are white, I think you should let them have their little parties if it makes them feel better.

Enigma3 wrote:I notice a lot of Hispanics openly (and proudly) identify themselves as Hispanics and I have seen some Mexicans burn the U.S. flag while waving the Mexican flag and nobody condemns such an open display of ethnic pride.

So my question is: is it unethical for white people to openly identify themselves as white? Why or why not is this ethical? Why is it ok for blacks and Hispanics but wrong for whites?

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I imagine such demonstrations are motivated by the feeling of being oppressed and discriminated against. So, if you are white and being treated unfairly by some other dominant ethnic group, I would say yes, it's OK to protest about it.

Enigma3 wrote:I notice a lot of Hispanics openly (and proudly) identify themselves as Hispanics and I have seen some Mexicans burn the U.S. flag while waving the Mexican flag and nobody condemns such an open display of ethnic pride.

So my question is: is it unethical for white people to openly identify themselves as white? Why or why not is this ethical? Why is it ok for blacks and Hispanics but wrong for whites?

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No. Just silly and not PC. 'Race' is a stupid thing for anyone to be proud of. It's hardly an achievement.

Enigma3 wrote:I notice a lot of Hispanics openly (and proudly) identify themselves as Hispanics and I have seen some Mexicans burn the U.S. flag while waving the Mexican flag and nobody condemns such an open display of ethnic pride.

So my question is: is it unethical for white people to openly identify themselves as white? Why or why not is this ethical? Why is it ok for blacks and Hispanics but wrong for whites?

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Minorities tend to do this in response to their vilification by the dominant group; thereby reifying the very mechanism of hate that so oppresses them; racial discrimination.
"White Pride" is also racism like "Black Pride" and "The prize for Jewish Literature" or "...science". It is by these things that we reinforce the institution of racism.

As said above, only minorities need to push the point so as not to be entirely dominated and subsumed by Anglos and east Asians. The dynamic between the dominant and the dominated was metaphorically nicely outlined by Douglas Adams in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency:

... it was none the less a perfectly ordinary horse ... They have always understood a great deal more than they let on. It is difficult to be sat on all day, every day, by some other creature, without forming an opinion on them.

On the other hand, it is perfectly possible to sit all day, every day, on top of another creature and not have the slightest thought about them whatsoever.

The 'white pride' movement differs from the others in that it is primarily a 'hate everyone but us' movement. They claim to hate jews, but jews are mostly white, so they come into problems when asked to define exactly who is a member of this 'white race'. No doubt it's anyone who is a right-wing, kristian, fascist, racist 'white', which narrows it down a bit. Then again, kristians don't bother with difinitions and logic anyway, especially not obese, toothless rednecked kristians.

Enigma3 wrote:I notice a lot of Hispanics openly (and proudly) identify themselves as Hispanics and I have seen some Mexicans burn the U.S. flag while waving the Mexican flag and nobody condemns such an open display of ethnic pride.

So my question is: is it unethical for white people to openly identify themselves as white? Why or why not is this ethical? Why is it ok for blacks and Hispanics but wrong for whites?

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Not sure about the Blacks, although in the context of America I guess its because it's still not acceptable to a fair percentage that one can be Black and American. But for the Mexicans it's because you can be white and Mexican.

Arising_uk wrote:

Enigma3 wrote:I notice a lot of Hispanics openly (and proudly) identify themselves as Hispanics and I have seen some Mexicans burn the U.S. flag while waving the Mexican flag and nobody condemns such an open display of ethnic pride.

So my question is: is it unethical for white people to openly identify themselves as white? Why or why not is this ethical? Why is it ok for blacks and Hispanics but wrong for whites?

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Not sure about the Blacks, although in the context of America I guess its because it's still not acceptable to a fair percentage that one can be Black and American. But for the Mexicans it's because you can be white and Mexican.

The USA is racist to the core of its beliefs and institutions. We ought not be surprised that the social groups both reflect and compete with government policy.

My answers:

Enigma3 wrote:So my question is: is it unethical for white people to openly identify themselves as white?

No. It is not unethical for people to "identify" as white if they possess all the qualities that are required to be considered "white".

Why or why not is this ethical?

It is not unethical to do so because if you are white it is a true statement to say, "I am white".

Why is it ok for blacks and Hispanics but wrong for whites?

See above.

Gary Childress wrote:My answers:

Not sure you are getting the point.

What the hell do you think "white" means?

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Gary Childress wrote:My answers:

Not sure you are getting the point.

What the hell do you think "white" means?

What is the point that I should be getting? I assume "white", in this instance means those with relatively light skin complexion.

For lack of any other generalized skin colour, I have grown fond of the way I look. Is that okay? I happen to like my steel blue eyes as well. But I've always looked this way, so it may be a product of nostalgia.

I also prefer tight, younger skin, which is something I'm slowly losing. Bummer. I hoped to keep it to the bitter end.

Have you ever noticed that animals will judge by appearance too? Males or females, depending on the species, use varied colours to attract a mate. Majestic manes also are sported by some to show power. Every day, I witness grey and black squirrels in territorial wars. We, ourselves, dress in colours and visuals to signify status, and to look nice. Reds drown me out. Greens and blues complement me.

The word unethical, according to some dictionaries, involves going against social or professional expectations of what's right, it's a word that's often used to describe bad behavior or immoral conduct.

If we were to use that definition, then it would be unethical to have pride in yourself on the basis that you were white, but perfectly acceptable to feel pride in being brown or black. That is, however, only a very recent recognized definition, since it is only in the past 40 years or so that our society declared that white people and only white people are the cancer of the earth.

In the early 1960's (before the Immigration Act of 1965) America was nearly 90% White European majority. The word American was synonymous with a white person. It was taken for granted. Our society would have thought it a silly question to ask if whites should take pride in themselves. It was a given, part of our history, that White European's had created the greatest country the world had ever seen. A country that many, many people the world over would like to live in. (Yet, ironically, we are told this is the most vile, racist country in existence.) It is an historical fact that White Europeans created Western Civilization, taking humanity from donkeys to the space age.

So what happened? It's too complex to discuss here, however, the short version is explained in one word---egalitarianism. There are those wishful-thinkers (I'm being kind) who believe we are all equal, and if it appears that we are not it's because evil white people, i.e., white men, are keeping the countries and peoples of the world from being their equals. Therefore, we have to eliminate white people as a majority in every country where they are in the majority. Today, America is approximately 62% majority, by 2030, probably sooner, they will be in the minority. What will happen then?

For now, if you identify as white you are called a White Nationalist, a White Supremacist, and/or a Nazi. White men are denied jobs and slots in colleges because of affirmative action that favors Blacks, Hispanics, and Women. White men are not allowed to compete on a level playing field. Jobs for policemen and firemen, and other civil service positions are not allowed to be majority white. When, as always happens, white men vastly outnumber blacks and Hispanics on firemen and police job testing, the test are said to be racist.

Black journalist routinely write disgusting, evil lies about white men, see Leonard Pitts, Bryant Gumbel, Star Jones, and Ta-Nehisi Coates just for starters. They have no trouble identifying as black, and they certainly have no trouble calling people white.

All Blacks, Hispanics, and Asians believe race exist, they use their race everyday to get ahead; it's just White people who are not allowed to believe race is real. Of course, race is real, if you don't believe it you don't believe in science. Read A Troublesome Inheritance: Genes, Race and Human History by Nicholas Wade.

To conclude, the times they are a-changin'. White men are starting to understand what's happening, and they will not "go gently into that good night."