Philosophy Now Forum

Is there a Creator?

Did the universe just appear or is there a Creator? What do you think?

You are reading this message either on a smart phone or a computer or perhaps, a printout. Who made each one of these? Did the gadget, the paper, the pen, the computer appear on its own or is somebody responsible to create what you are reading? This message has come to you but who sent you this message? Did it come by chance or did somebody send you this message? Obviously, there is somebody, some power that is creating, sustaining, managing the universe. We don’t know who, we don’t know where, we don’t know what, but there is a power – a power that creates. We are unable to comprehend this power because this power is beyond our understanding, but to deny the power is wrong. We must accept that we don’t know who the power is, where the power is and what the power is, but to say that there is no power and to say that all this is a coincidence or all this is just energy or by claiming that all this is just natural, what are we trying to say? Are we attributing this amazing creation of the universe to nothing or are we attributing this amazing creation of the universe to some power? Can we say that everything just appeared or is it not right to say that there must be a cause for this effect, because there is something in this universe, due to which you and I have come into existence?

AiR

AiR wrote:Is there a Creator?

Did the universe just appear or is there a Creator? What do you think?

You are reading this message either on a smart phone or a computer or perhaps, a printout. Who made each one of these? Did the gadget, the paper, the pen, the computer appear on its own or is somebody responsible to create what you are reading? This message has come to you but who sent you this message? Did it come by chance or did somebody send you this message? Obviously, there is somebody, some power that is creating, sustaining, managing the universe. We don’t know who, we don’t know where, we don’t know what, but there is a power – a power that creates. We are unable to comprehend this power because this power is beyond our understanding, but to deny the power is wrong. We must accept that we don’t know who the power is, where the power is and what the power is, but to say that there is no power and to say that all this is a coincidence or all this is just energy or by claiming that all this is just natural, what are we trying to say? Are we attributing this amazing creation of the universe to nothing or are we attributing this amazing creation of the universe to some power? Can we say that everything just appeared or is it not right to say that there must be a cause for this effect, because there is something in this universe, due to which you and I have come into existence?

AiR

The power is as follows..That which is, is without cause
That which seems to be, is caused
That which is causeless, is the cause of all things... That seem to be. This is the only power.

Naturally occurring phenomena is un-caused...or naturally caused in the sense the wind can cause a sand dune to appear in the dessert. Or a piece of old stale bread can cause a mold to grow on it...things that appear are possible and due to other factors already in place and so on and so on...

Humans can design/create artificial mechanical things, or take existing organic materials and turn it into other stuff...but human cannot make a blade of grass, or a flower, or even a human body from scratch...the human is falsely identified with an entity that believes if I exist then something must have created me because I too can create, so I must also have been created, but all a human is is a piece of alive matter, ... the identification with an entity is an illusion, it's not a human making artificial mechanical things it's aliveness or life doing it.....there's just aliveness without beginning or end...there is no death because eternal aliveness cannot die... even when flowers wither and disappear, nothing has died, it's simply returned to base elements and will recycle into something else ...and on and on that goes with every organic thing....there is just no thing here creating anything, there is energy changing form, but no death since energy is un-created.....so no entity in any human or animal, just as there is no entity in a flower or tree or a blade of grass....or a mobile phone or tv set..

The entity is born of the mind in which thoughts about an entity arise, thoughts which are empty at the core, since a mind has never been seen....the mind is one of life's biggest trick-less tricks nature has played ...thoughts are just a part of this energetic aliveness living itself by itself and for itself...for no reason other than it does and there is no one around to know how or why...

Then, it gets even weirder than that...since humans are the only ones with the capacity to be self aware, to separate oneness aliveness into many parts....so what could possibly have existed before human appeared on the scene? ....all that there must have been is....what is....without a name or creator.

So, this must conclude that the human being,albeit an illusory one, is the only one that is creating not only itself but the whole universe as well...and they were good at it because they invented words that could describe it without ever thinking to them selves that words like thoughts and beliefs are empty at the core. An illusion creating an illusion... what a mean trick.

If there is a creator of the mind then be rest assured, you are in good hands, because anything that can create something that cannot be located, seen, smelt, heard, felt, sensed, tasted, or known...in any shape or form is a genius.





.

AiR wrote:Did the universe just appear or is there a Creator? What do you think?

Just because the reality of humans involves beginnings and endings, and ourselves as "creators" with our creations, doesn't mean that's an ultimate framework for ALL which we are unaware of. What's beyond our known world may really be WAY beyond our known world. Without time or distance. To me, the idea of an ultimate creator seems like a primitive idea. It makes no sense to me that the universe, and all the dimensional realms beyond our perception and awareness, would somehow be defined and restricted by our own limited laws and ideas.

AiR wrote:Is there a Creator?

Did the universe just appear or is there a Creator? What do you think?
AiR

Explain to me, please, this idea of "just appear."

Do you mean "from nothing"?

Or did you mean from anterior cause (such as an explosion, or nitrogen and helium, or quark-gluon plasma, or a parallel universe, or a multiverse generator, or alien seeding...)

Because if it's the latter, it's not "just appearing." Those things too had to have an original cause. You've just moved it back one step, not proposed a non-originating situation.

But if it's the former ("nothing") then please explain to me how an actual nothing can even be supposed to produce something.

Air wrote: Did the universe just appear or is there a Creator? What do you think?

Perhaps what we call creation is just one breath of our source and taken as a whole is a measure of time:

Time in Buddhist cosmology is measured in kalpas. Originally, a kalpa was considered to be 4,320,000 years. Buddhist scholars expanded it with a metaphor: rub a one-mile cube of rock once every hundred years with a piece of silk, until the rock is worn away -- and a kalpa still hasn’t passed! During a kalpa, the world comes into being, exists, is destroyed, and a period of emptiness ensues. Then it all starts again..

AiR wrote: because there is something in this universe, due to which you and I have come into existence?
AiR

Great, so we know that something caused the Universe and everything in it to be here. Somehow I don't really feel any wiser.

AiR wrote: Did the universe just appear or is there a Creator? What do you think?

Both.

Reflex wrote:

AiR wrote: Did the universe just appear or is there a Creator? What do you think?

Both.

So you're saying the creator made the Universe just appear. Well that explains everything.

Well..............

https://youtu.be/JgNaNuAP7cU


The universe cost $28...


https://youtu.be/9o1SAS8KyMs

Harbal wrote:

Reflex wrote:

AiR wrote: Did the universe just appear or is there a Creator? What do you think?

Both.

So you're saying the creator made the Universe just appear. Well that explains everything.

What part of "both" don't you understand? Viewed as an unspiritual phenomenon, God is energy. Creator and created are interdependent: each depends on the other for its existence.

Reflex wrote:What part of "both" don't you understand? Viewed as an unspiritual phenomenon, God is energy. Creator and created are interdependent: each depends on the other for its existence.

Essentially, you're articulating the cosmological scheme of Buddhism or Hinduism. Or maybe a form of Gnosticism, though that's less clear. Those systems would agree with your account of the deep nature of things.

Immanuel Can wrote:

Reflex wrote:What part of "both" don't you understand? Viewed as an unspiritual phenomenon, God is energy. Creator and created are interdependent: each depends on the other for its existence.

Essentially, you're articulating the cosmological scheme of Buddhism or Hinduism. Or maybe a form of Gnosticism, though that's less clear. Those systems would agree with your account of the deep nature of things.

Similar, but not identical.

Immanuel Can wrote: Explain to me, please, this idea of "just appear."

Do you mean "from nothing"?

At one point, the something that we are talking about has been created by something beyond our understanding, which we can call nothing. If we keep going backwards, there is the question – Where was the first thing created? How did the “first thing that was created” get created? And obviously, there is no answer to that question, and that’s why we believe that it is beyond human comprehension to understand that the Creator created all these – not as a creation, but as a manifestation. All what we see is an appearance of the Creator in different forms, and that seems to be the best explanation to keep our mind at rest.

AiR

AiR wrote:

Immanuel Can wrote: Explain to me, please, this idea of "just appear."

Do you mean "from nothing"?

At one point, the something that we are talking about has been created by something beyond our understanding, which we can call nothing.

Is it actually "nothing" or is it "someTHING we call nothing"? Because if it's actually "nothing" then it's pretty hard to say there would be anything remotely scientific about believing in it -- especially if, as you say, it were "beyond our comprehension," even in principle. For science deals with cause-and-effect: and your claim would then be that things come from "nothing."

Then you'd have to explain this: if things once came from "nothing," then why would they not do so again? Why would not rabbits and computers just pop into existence from this wondrous creative "nothing" that created the universe? And then science itself could no longer be trusted, since the right answer to the question, "What makes things happen?" would always simply be "Nothing."

If we keep going backwards, there is the question – Where was the first thing created? How did the “first thing that was created” get created? And obviously, there is no answer to that question,

Oh, not only do I think that's far from obvious: I think it's got to be obviously wrong. That something started the chain is the most basic and necessary induction of science.

If we believe science can tell us anything, then there's one thing of which we can be certain, it's that something started the cause-and-effect chain. For science always assumes a cause for every effect. It never contents itself with "It just happened." And that people posit different answers doesn't argue that there isn't an answer; it just suggests they don't all know what it is, if any do.

But we can safely venture that there IS an answer, existing in the distant past, even if we suppose nobody is right about it at the moment.

All what we see is an appearance of the Creator in different forms, and that seems to be the best explanation to keep our mind at rest.

AiR

Well, the point as I see it is not to "keep my mind at rest," but to locate the best answer. If we just want to "rest," I think we can all existentially "stay home in bed" on this one.

AiR wrote:Is there a Creator?

Did the universe just appear or is there a Creator? What do you think?

Why do you give us only two choices here?

What about all the other options?

AiR wrote:You are reading this message either on a smart phone or a computer or perhaps, a printout. Who made each one of these? Did the gadget, the paper, the pen, the computer appear on its own or is somebody responsible to create what you are reading? This message has come to you but who sent you this message? Did it come by chance or did somebody send you this message? Obviously, there is somebody, some power that is creating, sustaining, managing the universe. We don’t know who, we don’t know where, we don’t know what, but there is a power – a power that creates. We are unable to comprehend this power because this power is beyond our understanding, but to deny the power is wrong. We must accept that we don’t know who the power is, where the power is and what the power is, but to say that there is no power and to say that all this is a coincidence or all this is just energy or by claiming that all this is just natural, what are we trying to say? Are we attributing this amazing creation of the universe to nothing or are we attributing this amazing creation of the universe to some power? Can we say that everything just appeared or is it not right to say that there must be a cause for this effect, because there is something in this universe, due to which you and I have come into existence?

AiR

There is a lot of "We must accept...", "We don't know who we...", "We are unable to comprehend...". The Truth I think you will find is a lot different than that.

Just because air does not know something, then that does not mean that I nor we do not know nor can not know it also. The knowledge that will very soon be revealed to human beings could not even be imagined by most people of today.

I/we do NOT have to and will not accept anything that is not true.

I do know who, I do know where, and, I do know how that 'power' creates.

I am also able to and have already comprehended all of this.

Formulating it in words just takes some time. I will not show evidence to prove all of this here now in this forum. It would be far too lengthy for now. Unless of course it is asked for.

By the way please refrain from speaking from the 'we'. Say what air knows or does not know, but do not say what "we" do not or can not know. The Truth sometimes hurts.

Also, just because a message may not have come by chance and that somebody actually did send you a message then that does not necessarily mean that there is some power that is creating, sustaining, managing the universe. I am not saying that there is not. I am just saying that that one does not follow from the other one. For example, some 'body' is a physical thing and to suggest that just because some physical 'body' sent you are message does not necessarily mean some physical 'body' is also creating, sustaining, managing the universe. For example within every physical human 'body' there is a set of non-physical thoughts and emotions, i.e., some power, that is creating, sustaining, and managing the shape of the body, through behaviours. The power you are referring to is NOT necessarily either a physical body or an energy. The power could come from both the physical and the non-physical working together equally or in equilibrium.

You asked, "What do you think?"

What I think is the Universe has always been constantly-evolving. 'Evolving', just means changing. The Universe was never created nor beginning nor ending at one point. The Universe has always been in constant-creation, because of and through evolution. There was no end. There is no beginning. The present "state" of the Universe is just the Creator of the next "state", which happens continually-NOW. Because Creation is in a constant state of change It is not necessarily noticed on first glance. But take a closer look and this can be seen.

If every action causes a reaction, and that reaction then must cause a re-action, and that action then causes a reaction, so on, then this continual REACTION process IS CREATION, Itself. This means that the Creator of the Universe IS Its own Self, with no beginning nor no end. The end is just the beginning and the beginning is just the end of the One just constantly-changing. The Creator is creating Its Self, always.

The physical part of the Universe is constantly-changing and creating, we can easily observe and notice this, whilst the spiritual part of the Universe is constantly-growing (learning) and knowing, not so easily observed and noticed. The physical part is obviously all physical things, whereas, the spiritual part is just the 'being', part of the Universe, i.e., the Mind, the thoughts, the emotions, the ideas, beliefs, concepts, etc. i.e., the non-physical parts, but which we know also do exist. We can not sense the non-physical parts with our five senses, but we know they are there and they can be seen, noticed and understood from all the human-made creations in existence. The human being is made up of two parts, the physical human body and the non-physical human 'being'.

The One being in all human beings is starting to witness and see (understand) that there is only One Universe, which is actualizing and creating Its own Self right HERE and right NOW.

There is no other creator. There is no other heaven nor hell. There is no other life, here-after or after-life. There is only this One Universe, which is alive, and which we sometimes also call Life, Itself.

One Life, has always existed and always will.

Life, Itself, could be called the 'driving force', the energy or the power, behind or with-in every thing.

Every physical thing changes in different shape and form. Every physical thing comes into being, exists, and then passes on. Onto some other thing that is. Matter never dis-appears from this One Universe nor appears from somewhere nor something else. All matter just changes in shape and form - always has and always will. This is just evolutionary-change taking place. All separate things are living independently of each other just like the One Universe Itself is One living independent thing. But all things act and re-act with every other thing. This then creates an other thing. At least two things are needed in order to create some thing new.

The life span for all things varies. All things are different but all things are living, which some times becomes unnoticeable to some human beings. For example some people do not see the moon or other planets as living things themselves, but if they are changing in shape and form just like the earth is and every other living thing does, then how are they not living things also? Instead of searching for "life" on other planets just take notice of 'Life', Itself.

So, to answer your question no the Universe did not just appear, physical things and non-physical space has always co-existed together in equilibrium. There is a Creator. But this Creator is not what most people generally think of. The Universe, Itself, is the Creator. If 'Universe', literally means all there is, then there is no other thing. Therefore, there could not be another Creator, other than Its own Self.

The One true Creator is the Universe It Self. This Self has just needed 'human beings', an intelligent species (I use those two words loosely here) to come into existence, for Its Self, Thee Creator, to be able to See, know and understand, Itself.

To be able to create any thing at least two things are needed prior. This Creator, Itself, is made up of two things, i.e., physical things and a space where no physical things exist. 'Space', just means the distance around a physical thing and the distance between one physical thing and another physical thing. These two things have always co-existed together. Without neither space nor matter the Universe would not be able to exist how it does. Space is needed for physical things to move freely, and physical things are needed because infinite space would be nothingness, which is pointless and meaningless. The Universe, in of Itself, may not need meaning but the Universe has obviously created a being that can give meaning.

Without either space nor matter the universe would not be able to be creating Itself continuously right NOW. Without the endless possibilities of an infinite, eternal Universe to be able to change into any shape and form in any and all ways physical things would not have re-adjusted themselves into forming and creating the human brain, which over generations is able to gather more and more knowledge of what I am actually creating, i.e., actualizing.

Without the Mind I would not be able to witness and See (understand) the beauty of what I am creating and actualizing NOW.