Page 1 of 1

Eden. Original Sin or Original Virtue?

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 8:53 pm
by Greatest I am
Eden. Original Sin or Original Virtue?

---------
http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/ ... -theodicy/
“Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.”
---------
http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/original_sin.html
From John Galt's speech, in Atlas Shrugged.
“What is the nature of the guilt that your teachers call his Original Sin? What are the evils man acquired when he fell from a state they consider perfection? Their myth declares that he ate the fruit of the tree of knowledge—he acquired a mind and became a rational being. It was the knowledge of good and evil—he became a moral being. He was sentenced to earn his bread by his labor—he became a productive being. He was sentenced to experience desire—he acquired the capacity of sexual enjoyment. The evils for which they damn him are reason, morality, creativeness, joy—all the cardinal values of his existence. It is not his vices that their myth of man’s fall is designed to explain and condemn, it is not his errors that they hold as his guilt, but the essence of his nature as man. Whatever he was—that robot in the Garden of Eden, who existed without mind, without values, without labor, without love—he was not man.
Man’s fall, according to your teachers, was that he gained the virtues required to live. These virtues, by their standard, are his Sin. His evil, they charge, is that he’s man. His guilt, they charge, is that he lives.”

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Gen 3;22 And the LORD God said: 'Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil;

Do you see Eden as our Original Sin or as our Original Virtue?

Regards
DL

Re: Eden. Original Sin or Original Virtue?

Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2016 9:23 pm
by Harbal
Greatest I am wrote: Do you see Eden as our Original Sin or as our Original Virtue?
It's only a story. I think you should find something a bit lighter to read. Something that won't get you quite so worked up.

Re: Eden. Original Sin or Original Virtue?

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:28 pm
by Greatest I am
Harbal wrote:
Greatest I am wrote: Do you see Eden as our Original Sin or as our Original Virtue?
It's only a story. I think you should find something a bit lighter to read. Something that won't get you quite so worked up.
Let me point out that from the Christian point of view, they have used it in ways to live life but more the negative than the positive as Christians have used this myth to not only vilify women but also to discriminate against women and gays forever.

He shall rule over you and one man and one woman becoming one are often quoted to enforce that discrimination.

If you do not get worked up about that then you are not a moral man.

For evil to grow, all we all need do is stick to light reading and ignore the hard stuff.

Regards
DL

Re: Eden. Original Sin or Original Virtue?

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 3:34 pm
by Harbal
Greatest I am wrote: Let me point out that from the Christian point of view, they have used it in ways to live life but more the negative than the positive as Christians have used this myth to not only vilify women but also to discriminate against women and gays forever.
It seems strange that Christians should vilify gays, after all, wasn't Jesus gay?

Re: Eden. Original Sin or Original Virtue?

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:05 pm
by Greatest I am
Harbal wrote:
Greatest I am wrote: Let me point out that from the Christian point of view, they have used it in ways to live life but more the negative than the positive as Christians have used this myth to not only vilify women but also to discriminate against women and gays forever.
It seems strange that Christians should vilify gays, after all, wasn't Jesus gay?
Not likely.

In that day, a Rabbi basically had to be married. More has been coming out lately on Jesus having a wife.

Standard fare to a Gnostic Christian like me but most are fighting that notion.

Then again, it is the literalist idol worshiping Christians who are fighting it due to their dogma.

Regards
DL

Re: Eden. Original Sin or Original Virtue?

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:16 pm
by Harbal
Greatest I am wrote: Not likely.

In that day, a Rabbi basically had to be married. More has been coming out lately on Jesus having a wife.

Standard fare to a Gnostic Christian like me but most are fighting that notion.

Then again, it is the literalist idol worshiping Christians who are fighting it due to their dogma.

Regards
DL
Have I got it wrong? I thought they crucified him for being gay. Didn't they catch him kissing one of his disciples in somebody's garden?

Re: Eden. Original Sin or Original Virtue?

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:25 pm
by Greatest I am
Harbal wrote:
Greatest I am wrote: Not likely.

In that day, a Rabbi basically had to be married. More has been coming out lately on Jesus having a wife.

Standard fare to a Gnostic Christian like me but most are fighting that notion.

Then again, it is the literalist idol worshiping Christians who are fighting it due to their dogma.

Regards
DL
Have I got it wrong? I thought they crucified him for being gay. Didn't they catch him kissing one of his disciples in somebody's garden?
As I understand it, Jesus and his imaginary death was created by Rome to show the Jews what happens when people get uppity with Rome.

In that day, separation of church and state was not the reality.

Regards
DL