Philosophy Now Forum

Let your yeah be yeah. And your no, be no, now. You're giving me but and maybe. You know this will drive me crazy. Why can't you tell it like it is. (Jimmy Cliff)

Sometimes people just can't accept a No, I'm not interested.
Some want you to submit, even tho' you don't wanna.
Some seduce with promises they can't keep.
Either way.
Telling it like it is - for you - means accepting some won't listen. Sticking fingers in ears; singing la-la-la. Or worse.

Nothing wrong with a yes,no, but or maybe.
Even if it drives them crazy.

And yes, I'm getting at the damned religious circles.
Just found this:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... MP;NIV;MSG

Matthew 5:37New King James Version (NKJV)

37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one

Absolutely definitely maybe not...no. Who the hell is the 'evil one' ?

mjb wrote:Absolutely definitely maybe not...no. Who the hell is the 'evil one' ?

Your topic. Who do you think it is, and why. Or do you just have no idea.

Walker wrote:

mjb wrote:Absolutely definitely maybe not...no. Who the hell is the 'evil one' ?

Your topic. Who do you think it is, and why. Or do you just have no idea.

I don't know the context of the biblical quote. I found it when I searched for the song title.
And that search was inspired by all your recent nein, nein, neins. Whatever that is all about.
Also, the never-ending circle of personal explanations asked for, then ignored or not accepted in the eternal atheist v theist game.

Who do you think is the 'evil one' ?

marjoram_blues wrote:

Walker wrote:

mjb wrote:Absolutely definitely maybe not...no. Who the hell is the 'evil one' ?

Your topic. Who do you think it is, and why. Or do you just have no idea.

I don't know the context of the biblical quote. I found it when I searched for the song title.
And that search was inspired by all your recent nein, nein, neins. Whatever that is all about.
Also, the never-ending circle of personal explanations asked for, then ignored or not accepted in the eternal atheist v theist game.

Who do you think is the 'evil one' ?

What I find amazing is that in face of Orlando empirical evidence, you're gonna find folks who insist that there is no evil other than what man designates.

Nein means no.

Nein nein nein means no no no.

Some expression of "No" are longer than others.

Some expressions of Yes are longer than others.

Recent discussions in other threads have established the fact that atheism centers around "No." No God.

Hmmm.

Some folks have a long nein. Some folk have long noes.

marjoram_blues wrote:

Matthew 5:37New King James Version (NKJV)

37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one

Absolutely definitely maybe not...no. Who the hell is the 'evil one' ?

Actually, I read my King James as "cometh of evil"; just evil, not the devil. It refers to testimony before a judge, and lawyers still like to pin a witness down to Yes or No answers... which are not always the truth. Depends on the question, and how it's phrased, doesn't it?
In this case, it was a warning against fanciful, clever and misleading argument.

But in religious teaching, it is often misdirected to testaments of faith -
Because complex, nuanced, responsive, conditional and situational reasoning will turn up the contradictions in faith.
Are you with us or against us? (None of this hedging, "Yes, I'm with you, Archbishop, but wouldn't it be a good idea to hold off the charge until the fog clears and we can see just how many Saracens are on that battlement? I reserve the option to turn tail and run like a craven apostate.")

Walker wrote: Recent discussions in other threads have established the fact that atheism centers around "No."

That's not a fact -- it's completely stupid and false! Just because the idea of a god represents all to you, does not mean that someone who says "no god" is saying no to all. The world does not revolve around your piddly-ass beliefs. It's extraordinarily foolish for you to insist that it does. Seriously, what credibility can you have when you say such idiotic things? Have you just surrendered to your stupidity, and figure you may as well spew it far and wide as if mindlessly repeating it might magically make it valid or true? Or perhaps you're showing how invincible your stupidity can be... so that you won't be challenged to think or move beyond it? You're only dumbing yourself down... in front of everyone. At least you serve as a warning for others.

Lacewing wrote:

Walker wrote: Recent discussions in other threads have established the fact that atheism centers around "No." No God.

That's not a fact -- it's completely stupid and false! Just because the idea of a god represents all to you, does not mean that someone who says "no god" is saying no to all. The world does not revolve around your piddly-ass beliefs. It's extraordinarily foolish for you to insist that it does. Seriously, what credibility can you have when you say such idiotic things? Have you just surrendered to your stupidity, and figure you may as well spew it far and wide as if mindlessly repeating it might magically make it valid or true? Or perhaps you're showing how invincible your stupidity can be... so that you won't be challenged to think or move beyond it? You're only dumbing yourself down... in front of everyone. At least you serve as a warning for others.

Beauty is only skin deep but Nein goes right to the bone.

Atheism does not center around Yes, God is.

It centers around no, God is not.

The reasons have been laid out with irrefutable logic.

Drink deep.

Sure. But - important as it may seem to you, large as it may loom in your eye - atheism is actually a very small portion of an identity, a personality, a world-view or a system of ideas and convictions. That 'no' at its center figures in the person's life or consciousness about as much as does the 'no' at the center of their unbelief in leprechauns.
The only reason atheism gets so much air-time is that theists can't seem to resist dragging it out and throwing ridiculous accusations at it.

Walker wrote:
Atheism does not center around Yes, God is.

It centers around no, God is not.

Sometimes it centres round, will you shut the fuck up about God, I'm not interested in God.

Skip wrote:Sure. But - important as it may seem to you, large as it may loom in your eye - atheism is actually a very small portion of an identity, a personality, a world-view or a system of ideas and convictions. That 'no' at its center figures in the person's life or consciousness about as much as does the 'no' at the center of their unbelief in leprechauns.
The only reason atheism gets so much air-time is that theists can't seem to resist dragging it out and throwing ridiculous accusations at it.

And I think this is true for some (?most ) believers too. The personal conflict involved in attempting to meet/adhere to the 'standards' of an ancient scripture and religious group,within our current societal and global mix and mores, must be immense. People have other loves and passions, simple as that. People can worry or laugh about the hypocrisy involved in leading a Jekyll and Hyde life. However, for some it can devastate their lives and that of others.

Saying no to the idea of leprechauns is a damned sight easier, and less dangerous, than saying No, I don't, can't believe in a God.
Ex-believers, likewise, can be prone to charges of hypocrisy. Despite their non belief it is difficult not to hold on to the idea of God. And be affected by the music. Even if the words don't always make sense.

Yesterday, I managed a trip out to a town about 20 miles away. My heart and mind heavy with various problems. All of a sudden I heard music and harmony. There was a tug at my heart, tears to my eyes - the ready and instant response to 'How Great Thou Art' as sung by a Chinese couple, the man playing a simple guitar.

When I say it was harmonious, it was not always in tune - but as raw and real as it gets.
I don't know that, of course - they could be con-artists; tourists asking for money to fund their travels.
For me, the 'principle of charity' when reading philosophical texts is now a bit more ingrained; difficult as that is, and transferable.
And yes, I first came across the word 'charity' at school or church - having to memorise and recite the biblical 'Faith, Hope and Charity'.

It is often translated as 'Love'.
What this isn't, is the kind of 'love' which is shoved down your unwilling throat.

MB wrote:
I don't know the context of the biblical quote. I found it when I searched for the song title.
And that search was inspired by all your recent nein, nein, neins. Whatever that is all about.
Also, the never-ending circle of personal explanations asked for, then ignored or not accepted in the eternal atheist v theist game.

Who do you think is the 'evil one' ?

Walker wrote:
What I find amazing is that in face of Orlando empirical evidence, you're gonna find folks who insist that there is no evil other than what man designates.
Nein means no.
Nein nein nein means no no no.
Some expression of "No" are longer than others.
Some expressions of Yes are longer than others.
Recent discussions in other threads have established the fact that atheism centers around "No." No God.

Hmmm.
Some folks have a long nein. Some folk have long noes.

So, unlike Skip, rather than give some kind of a helpful answer to my question re the biblical quote, you take the opportunity and use the recent tragedy to attack the human concept of evil. Please try to attend to the particular question asked of you, if you will. Clearly, most talk of a biblical 'evil one' relates to a concept of 'Satan'. However, Skip suggests that another translation is simply 'evil' - which seems broader in scope.

Yes, I know that 'Nein' is the German word for 'No'. Interesting that you chose that language. Does it have a special connotation for you? Is the French 'Non' too soft - and without the strong German/Jew relationship ? Yes, I know that much can be read into a simple 'No'.

Of course, any negative or positive expressions can be a long as a piece of string. What does that have to do with anything?

Again, others have responded to your 'fact' about what 'atheism centres around' - I don't think I need add more words that you, and others, don't seem to attend to. Is that kind of blocking negativity more agreeable to you ?
A long No - Goodbye.
A long nose - a lie ?
or a useful sniffing out tool. Of open curiosity and questioning.

Skip wrote:

marjoram_blues wrote:

Matthew 5:37New King James Version (NKJV)

37 But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one

Absolutely definitely maybe not...no. Who the hell is the 'evil one' ?

Actually, I read my King James as "cometh of evil"; just evil, not the devil. It refers to testimony before a judge, and lawyers still like to pin a witness down to Yes or No answers... which are not always the truth. Depends on the question, and how it's phrased, doesn't it?
In this case, it was a warning against fanciful, clever and misleading argument.

But in religious teaching, it is often misdirected to testaments of faith -
Because complex, nuanced, responsive, conditional and situational reasoning will turn up the contradictions in faith.
Are you with us or against us? (None of this hedging, "Yes, I'm with you, Archbishop, but wouldn't it be a good idea to hold off the charge until the fog clears and we can see just how many Saracens are on that battlement? I reserve the option to turn tail and run like a craven apostate.")

Thanks again, Skip. Appreciate your clear, helpful response which enlightens in more ways than one

Harbal wrote:

Walker wrote:
Atheism does not center around Yes, God is.

It centers around no, God is not.

Sometimes it centres round, will you shut the fuck up about God, I'm not interested in God.

Well, I would call that speaking with definite style - as with Lacewing - you two don't hold back, do ya' ?

Walker wrote: What I find amazing is that in face of Orlando empirical evidence, you're gonna find folks who insist that there is no evil other than what man designates. ...

If it's discovered that this was done due to religious belief how can it be 'evil'? As presumably the person heard the tap.

Recent discussions in other threads have established the fact that atheism centers around "No." No God.

Only if you ignore what some atheists said, as it's no evidence for the 'God' most commonly alluded to by theists.

Hmmm.

Some folks have a long nein. Some folk have long noes.

And some have cloth ears.

Skip wrote:Sure. But - important as it may seem to you, large as it may loom in your eye - atheism is actually a very small portion of an identity, a personality, a world-view or a system of ideas and convictions. That 'no' at its center figures in the person's life or consciousness about as much as does the 'no' at the center of their unbelief in leprechauns.
The only reason atheism gets so much air-time is that theists can't seem to resist dragging it out and throwing ridiculous accusations at it.

Skip wrote:...atheism is actually a very small portion of an identity,...

The compartmentalizing sophisticate likes to think so. Primacy of ego and all that. And this paints a pretty picture of control until a few tears override the control panel and splash on the paint-by-number canvas. Then the watercolors bleed over the boundary lines.