Philosophy Now Forum

Is human free will an oxymoron? Is the concept of free will incoherent?

My own answer to both of those questions is "No". However, I have a feeling that I'm in a minority when it comes to this topic.

If you believe that free will is incoherent, can you explain why?

I'd be happy for any replies -- regardless of your views.

Would you be able to distinguish between the two. If not, does it really matter?

(There is definitely no free will when it comes to being created. It's the creators' choice (your parents)).

I don't have a free will; I am a will, bound up in, and by, a deterministic (but undetermined) world, and, within the framework of the world, I choose all the damn time, in large ways and small.

I am an agency: apprehending, assessing, comparing, concluding, acting.

I am not bio-automata, not (just) a link in a causal chain.

I'm the reality standing between the fictions of free will and determinism.

It's quite probable that every circumstance, event, decision and outcome is predetermined by the pre-existing web of causation chains. It's perfectly possible that there are nine more dimension than I'm able to perceive and that time is not linear.

So? I experience the world with my given sensory equipment in a certain way. I experience the process of cognition, cogitation and conviction. I go through all the phases and motions of deciding and acting on my decisions and enduring their consequences. I can't even discuss external reality or my relations with other sentient beings, or my feelings, thoughts and attitudes, without reference to an ethical apprehension of those subjects.

To all practical effect, I have free will. Here is the test of predetermination: Refrain from making any decisions for one hour. The test itself is an oxymoron. I see little point in worrying about it.

Agreed. If anything is determined about us, it seems to be that we, as individuals, must weigh and assess and conclude and act.

We have no choice but to choose.

I wish I could quit smoking seeing as I have free will.

Skip wrote:It's quite probable that every circumstance, event, decision and outcome is predetermined by the pre-existing web of causation chains. It's perfectly possible that there are nine more dimension than I'm able to perceive and that time is not linear.

So? I experience the world with my given sensory equipment in a certain way. I experience the process of cognition, cogitation and conviction. I go through all the phases and motions of deciding and acting on my decisions and enduring their consequences. I can't even discuss external reality or my relations with other sentient beings, or my feelings, thoughts and attitudes, without reference to an ethical apprehension of those subjects.

To all practical effect, I have free will. Here is the test of predetermination: Refrain from making any decisions for one hour. The test itself is an oxymoron. I see little point in worrying about it.

Perfect reply. We are largely boxed in by our physiology and society anyway. The rest, for all intents and purposes, might as well be considered free will. The ontology is anyone's guess.

Joseph74 wrote:Is human free will an oxymoron? Is the concept of free will incoherent?

My own answer to both of those questions is "No". However, I have a feeling that I'm in a minority when it comes to this topic.

If you believe that free will is incoherent, can you explain why?

I'd be happy for any replies -- regardless of your views.

Normally when someone poses a multiple choice question they spell out both options.

Looks like you are just looking for a fight though.

Maybe you should try harder.

Skip wrote:It's quite probable that every circumstance, event, decision and outcome is predetermined by the pre-existing web of causation chains. It's perfectly possible that there are nine more dimension than I'm able to perceive and that time is not linear.

So? I experience the world with my given sensory equipment in a certain way. I experience the process of cognition, cogitation and conviction. I go through all the phases and motions of deciding and acting on my decisions and enduring their consequences. I can't even discuss external reality or my relations with other sentient beings, or my feelings, thoughts and attitudes, without reference to an ethical apprehension of those subjects.

To all practical effect, I have free will. Here is the test of predetermination: Refrain from making any decisions for one hour. The test itself is an oxymoron. I see little point in worrying about it.

But even without all that complex interaction, it seems feasible that the Philosophy-God being all-knowing can already know what is going to happen, like a billiards player knowing were all the billiard balls are going to end up even before he strikes the cue ball.

Just because the Philosophy-God is all-knowing does not mean we ourselves are not completely free.

It just means that He can read us really well.

Joseph74 wrote:Is human free will an oxymoron? Is the concept of free will incoherent?

My own answer to both of those questions is "No". However, I have a feeling that I'm in a minority when it comes to this topic.

If you believe that free will is incoherent, can you explain why?

I'd be happy for any replies -- regardless of your views.

When you 'freely' make a choice what do you mean?
In what way do you make that choice? Take me through the process. And if some other bit of information is given to you, is it possible that might change your choice?
Does learning and experience have an effect on your choices? What else might affect you decision?

I'd also like to hear people describe what goes on within one's experience, when one makes a choice. Here is how it seems to me:

Any decision has some buildup that precedes it, and during this time all kinds of things occur in my mind (and body), some of it happening at the edges of consciousness. Right now I'd like to get some more gummy candy from my cupboard, though I'm already feeling some slight negative effects of it on my stomach, plus I know I'll be dancing later and want to be in optimal shape for it. Then there might also be a bit of "unconscious" perfectionism in this (or something like it), without which I may just go for the gummy candy because I like it, not caring about the possibility of not being at my best. So far I've not gotten up to get the candy -- you could say when I've had the urge, I've chosen to not get it.

There is probably more factoring into my choice to not get the gummy candy than I want (or am capable of) articulating right now. All of this stuff -- my urges, feelings in my body, background thoughts, and my knowledge and thinking capabilities -- is there prior to my choice, and all of it factors into what I choose.

I actually don't see a gap where given all these factors, "I" finally make a choice, such that I could have chosen otherwise. It just seems to me that my choices, which certainly involve intelligence and insight in making (sometimes more, sometimes less), are just the sum of all these things happening in my mind, body, and in the world.

After I've made my decision to not get more candy, I can reflect back on the situation, though I won't be able to then gather in my mind the reality of all that was happening at the time. If I already assume that there is a "me" that freely decides (i.e. can do one thing and not the other), it would be easy to imagine that "I" chose as I did, aided by my intelligence and knowledge etc. but not bound by them. Essentially I'd impose an idea of free will onto my (remembered) experiences, though it doesn't ever appear in my immediate experience.

Arik-Alb wrote:There is probably more factoring into my choice to not get the gummy candy than I want (or am capable of) articulating right now. All of this stuff -- my urges, feelings in my body, background thoughts, and my knowledge and thinking capabilities -- is there prior to my choice, and all of it factors into what I choose.

I actually don't see a gap where given all these factors, "I" finally make a choice, such that I could have chosen otherwise. It just seems to me that my choices, which certainly involve intelligence and insight in making (sometimes more, sometimes less), are just the sum of all these things happening in my mind, body, and in the world.

Yes, the output (effect) would be Determined from the inputs (causes). Whatever will be will be.

Joseph74 wrote:Is human free will an oxymoron? Is the concept of free will incoherent?

My own answer to both of those questions is "No". However, I have a feeling that I'm in a minority when it comes to this topic.

If you believe that free will is incoherent, can you explain why?

I'd be happy for any replies -- regardless of your views.

The real purpose of your thread is just a cozy chat, else you would have read up on it, and not have to ask anything.

This is exactly why no one wants Philosophers, they're a good waste of time!

Definition of oxymoron

: a combination of words that have opposite or very different meanings

Just saying.

Wyman wrote:Definition of oxymoron

: a combination of words that have opposite or very different meanings

Just saying.

Which one?
"Free Will"
OR
"Determined Choice"