Philosophy Now Forum

Okay, I’m not a scientist, so it’s hard for me to put some concepts into the proper words, but I will do my best to describe this... as I’d like to explore it if anyone is willing.

Are these statements true:
From the smallest scale to the largest scale, everything we are aware of is a collective of parts.
These collective parts interact and operate as systems within systems.
There is no single thing that is isolated, nor operating independently from a system.

If these statements are true, wouldn’t it suggest that no SINGLE THING is required or logical to be external to (or separate from) all of the parts and systems which naturally function, grow, and regulate as a collective?

And a “thinking” and “functioning” god with awareness would naturally have to be a collective of parts and systems too? Therefore, there can be no single, independent, separate god... only a COLLECTIVE.

Yes? No?

Pure nonsense and babble!

The end times are foretold and holds true, if you actually read the bible, heard all the prophets talk about the end times.

Read the prophecy of St Malachy, it's too accurate to just be due to chance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

Lacewing wrote: Are these statements true:
From the smallest scale to the largest scale, everything we are aware of is a collective of parts.
These collective parts interact and operate as systems within systems.
There is no single thing that is isolated, nor operating independently from a system.

There is a problem in the phrase "everything we are aware of".
Atoms are made of multiple smaller thingies, and those electrons and other thingies are made of smaller thingies still. I'm not sure it's turtles all the way down though, is infinite divisibility a logical certainty? If not then it would be a given that sooner or later one of those thingines will turn out not to be a collection of parts.

Lacewing wrote:From the smallest scale to the largest scale, everything we are aware of is a collective of parts.

Hello.

You’re aware of yourself. Are you a thing, and are you a collective of parts?

It would be helpful in uncovering the truth to settle this question before proceeding with the logic.

FlashDangerpants wrote:

Lacewing wrote: Are these statements true:
From the smallest scale to the largest scale, everything we are aware of is a collective of parts.
These collective parts interact and operate as systems within systems.
There is no single thing that is isolated, nor operating independently from a system.

There is a problem in the phrase "everything we are aware of".
Atoms are made of multiple smaller thingies, and those electrons and other thingies are made of smaller thingies still. I'm not sure it's turtles all the way down though, is infinite divisibility a logical certainty? If not then it would be a given that sooner or later one of those thingines will turn out not to be a collection of parts.

"Is infinite divisibility a logical certainty?" No - check out Planck's constant as nothing is smaller than that.

PhilX

Walker wrote: Are you a thing, and are you a collective of parts? It would be helpful in uncovering the truth to settle this question before proceeding with the logic.

Yes. I use the word "thing" for every thing, for lack of a better word. And I am absolutely made up of more parts than I can fathom.

So, how do you proceed now with the logic?

Lacewing wrote:

Walker wrote: Are you a thing, and are you a collective of parts? It would be helpful in uncovering the truth to settle this question before proceeding with the logic.

Yes. I use the word "thing" for every thing, for lack of a better word. And I am absolutely made up of more parts than I can fathom.

So, how do you proceed now with the logic?

Well just hold your horses.

Which parts to lose to no more be you?

FlashDangerpants wrote: There is a problem in the phrase "everything we are aware of".

In what way? How can we know and compare what we're not aware of?

FlashDangerpants wrote:...it would be a given that sooner or later one of those thingies will turn out not to be a collection of parts.

Perhaps. However, the little thingie will be meaningless and ineffective if not part of a system, yes? The point I was trying to make is that based on all we can see and know, surely a god would have to be a collective of parts within a system TOO. Unless that god was one of those little thingies, which would be ineffective without its relationship in the system to all else. So, based on how all else is connected and interacting beyond what we can probably ever fathom, why would humans come up with an idea of (and need for) a separate entity?

What?

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Walker wrote:

Lacewing wrote:I am absolutely made up of more parts than I can fathom.

Which parts to lose to no more be you?

I am not a single, separate entity. I am a combination of parts within a system within systems.

Okay, what's your logic that you said you would proceed with?

If everything is connected then it is logically all one thing. However, the posited God of Abrahamic theology is supposed to be outside of nature, which begs many questions and creates new regression questions. Also, why not multiple gods existing outside of nature? Why not an infinite number? No reason unless we take word of Iron Age people in the middle east over all others.

While everything consists of parts, that does not reflect on the reality of the larger emergent forms, be they atoms, molecules, organisms, planets or galaxies. They are all made from smaller components resulting in relatively stable emergent forms. There's a decent chance that subatomic particles too are comprised of Planck scale entities.

Let's let the gods fight it out.

HexHammer wrote:Pure nonsense and babble!

The end times are foretold and holds true, if you actually read the bible, heard all the prophets talk about the end times.

Read the prophecy of St Malachy, it's too accurate to just be due to chance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

Keep this up, I'll start calling you BobHammer.

What makes you think that God, or religion, will obey the human rules of logic?

Lacewing wrote:Okay, what's your logic that you said you would proceed with?

Put words in your own mouth.

Proceed.