Venezuela
Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 2:05 pm
Venezuela 5-18-16
What the hell is going on there?
Failed socialism, or is that an oxymoron?
What the hell is going on there?
Failed socialism, or is that an oxymoron?
For the discussion of all things philosophical.
https://canzookia.com/
What are some examples of smaller scale successes of a "free unrestricted" market?henry quirk wrote:Elsewhere, in-forum, Gary (I think it was) said sumthin' about there not being any real examples of a true free market.
What i was gonna say in that thread was 'This may be true on the large scale, but on the small(er) scale there are plenty of examples of the success of a free/unrestricted market, just as there are a whack of large scale examples of how socialism consistently fails. It fails as economic theory, it fails as social skeleton, it fails simply cuz that's not how human beings are wired'.
Do you pay anything into your own social security in your dealings? Do you benefit at all from infrastructure, for example roads or bridges by which to meet with your clients?henry quirk wrote:Every time I conduct business, is the best example I can give.
I self-employ...my contracts, my fees, the whole shebang of my work, is set by me.
Of course I have to dicker with some clients about money (they understandably wanna pay less, and I, understandably, want them to pay more), but this is part of the game of an unregulated transaction (which, again, is the basis for an open market).
Pretty sure I violate all manner of regulation and law when I operate this way...*shrug*...my clients don't seem to mind.
My point: on any given day, at any given time, thousands of unregulated transactions happen, transactions bound up not in law but only in supply and demand, want and access, and, of course, payment and profit.
The point is, even on the micro level, you probably benefit from many things which are not products of an unfettered "free market". The computers which we're both typing on right now are here at this time in part because of massive government expenditures in R&D decades ago. Probably what we have now would have come into being at some point but government intervention undoubtedly hastened the process.henry quirk wrote:I don't put a dime into the SS as I won't ever draw a dime out of the SS. I don't expect that particular scam to be in play when I'm old(er). I do expect I'll be workin' till I drop dead.
As for the rest: I pay taxes, Gary.
Not seein' your point.
You said:henry quirk wrote:Yeah, I benefit from all manner of collective/communal stuff and I pay for my use of all of it (by way of [poorly spent] taxes, and good, old fashioned, transaction).
Not seein' how this negates my example.
And: nice try lumpin' me in with Rand but she ain't my goddess in polyester.
I just pointed out that much of your current business is intermingled with (even dependent upon) products and services of a not so "free" market. So how can you call it success of a "free unrestricted" market with any assurance when you are immersed over your head in a market rife with government intervention, restrictions and other "meddling"? Remember, this all spawned out of my post in reply to Bob, asking him to give an example of a relatively successful and wealthy society which has a perfectly "free" market. Bob's position is that a society with a perfectly "free" market will be more prosperous than a society without a "free" market. I asked him for examples to back his claim, which of course he did not provide.What i was gonna say in that thread was 'This may be true on the large scale, but on the small(er) scale there are plenty of examples of the success of a free/unrestricted market,
Working until you drop dead was the original intent of the SS program. The original SS intent followed henry's philosophy in that regard.Gary Childress wrote:The point is, even on the micro level, you probably benefit from many things which are not products of an unfettered "free market". The computers which we're both typing on right now are here at this time in part because of massive government expenditures in R&D decades ago. Probably what we have now would have come into being at some point but government intervention undoubtedly hastened the process.henry quirk wrote:I don't put a dime into the SS as I won't ever draw a dime out of the SS. I don't expect that particular scam to be in play when I'm old(er). I do expect I'll be workin' till I drop dead.
As for the rest: I pay taxes, Gary.
Not seein' your point.
As far as retirement, good luck. Not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to work until they "drop dead". Even the paragon of "free market" capitalism, Ayn Rand withdrew social security toward the end of her life.
The drug trade and organized crime. Completely free market.Gary Childress wrote:What are some examples of smaller scale successes of a "free unrestricted" market?henry quirk wrote:Elsewhere, in-forum, Gary (I think it was) said sumthin' about there not being any real examples of a true free market.
What i was gonna say in that thread was 'This may be true on the large scale, but on the small(er) scale there are plenty of examples of the success of a free/unrestricted market, just as there are a whack of large scale examples of how socialism consistently fails. It fails as economic theory, it fails as social skeleton, it fails simply cuz that's not how human beings are wired'.