Philosophy Now Forum

Yahweh and Allah. Are they moral and ethical Gods?

Some say we cannot say or know, because it is all myth.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

I think they are wrong as men can judge actions.

I think we can at least know if Yahweh and Allah, and the religions they spawned, are good or evil.

Since God is a Man interpreting God’s words, believers all following a Man.

We invent our Gods and put them above us. But ultimately get all we know of God, and his morality from others around us. Priests and imams interpret and are the spokes in the religious communication network. Those priests and imams are teaching violence against their neighbor instead of love. I do not see that as ethical behavior for any moral religion.

From what you know of Yahweh and Allah, and the religions they have spawned, would you say that those two War loving Gods, as we also love it in their image, good Gods, or would you say they are something else?

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote:Yahweh and Allah. Are they moral and ethical Gods?

Some say we cannot say or know, because it is all myth.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

I think they are wrong as men can judge actions.

I think we can at least know if Yahweh and Allah, and the religions they spawned, are good or evil.

Since God is a Man interpreting God’s words, believers all following a Man.

We invent our Gods and put them above us. But ultimately get all we know of God, and his morality from others around us. Priests and imams interpret and are the spokes in the religious communication network. Those priests and imams are teaching violence against their neighbor instead of love. I do not see that as ethical behavior for any moral religion.

From what you know of Yahweh and Allah, and the religions they have spawned, would you say that those two War loving Gods, as we also love it in their image, good Gods, or would you say they are something else?

Regards
DL

Obviously, when talking about God (or gods) we are probably engaging in pure speculation. As far as whether I think Yahweh and Allah are moral and ethical Gods, it sort of reminds me of the passage in the Euthyphro where Socrates asks if something is pious because it pleases the gods or if the Gods are pleased because something is pious. Does "moral" and/or "ethical" = whatever pleases God? So for example, if murdering a perfectly innocent bystander at a particular moment were to make God happy (for whatever reason), would it be ethical to do? Or do ethics transcend even God? Can human beings look at something attributed to God and say, "Gee God, that's just not right"?

Soren Kierkegaard of course placed God above even ethics as in the case of Abraham about to sacrifice his son Isaac. If one is commanded by God to do something, one does it if one is "faithful"-says Kierkegaard. In Kierkegaard's case, I believe he holds ethics to be an earthly, human affair and that God transcends all ethics.

But, yeah, it's a difficult question. Just reading some parts of the Bible or (apparently) the Koran there seem to be places that are ethically questionable and yet supposedly the will of God. It's also potentially scary to have people walking around believing that a little voice in their head that is telling them to do something bad, may be the voice of God. It's also scary to think that a spiritual leader could control an individual's ethical choices simply by telling that individual that God wills something. All in all, I say some of us humans are adults now and we can make our own ethical decisions without listening to fatherly voices telling us to do things, especially if those things are of questionable ethical merit.

Greatest I am wrote:Yahweh and Allah. Are they moral and ethical Gods?

It's the same god. The Allah incarnation comes a little farther down the historical time-line, and the Roman Catholic Father (Numero Uno of the holy trinity) comes in between. His morality cannot be subjected to scrutiny, because gods are, by definition, above ethical and moral consideration. They hand rules down; they are not themselves bound by those - or any - rules.

Thus: For everything good, you should thank _______ [fill in appropriate deity] and for everything bad, you should be _______ [fill in appropriate punishment].

Gary Childress wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:Yahweh and Allah. Are they moral and ethical Gods?

Some say we cannot say or know, because it is all myth.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

I think they are wrong as men can judge actions.

I think we can at least know if Yahweh and Allah, and the religions they spawned, are good or evil.

Since God is a Man interpreting God’s words, believers all following a Man.

We invent our Gods and put them above us. But ultimately get all we know of God, and his morality from others around us. Priests and imams interpret and are the spokes in the religious communication network. Those priests and imams are teaching violence against their neighbor instead of love. I do not see that as ethical behavior for any moral religion.

From what you know of Yahweh and Allah, and the religions they have spawned, would you say that those two War loving Gods, as we also love it in their image, good Gods, or would you say they are something else?

Regards
DL

Obviously, when talking about God (or gods) we are probably engaging in pure speculation. As far as whether I think Yahweh and Allah are moral and ethical Gods, it sort of reminds me of the passage in the Euthyphro where Socrates asks if something is pious because it pleases the gods or if the Gods are pleased because something is pious. Does "moral" and/or "ethical" = whatever pleases God? So for example, if murdering a perfectly innocent bystander at a particular moment were to make God happy (for whatever reason), would it be ethical to do? Or do ethics transcend even God? Can human beings look at something attributed to God and say, "Gee God, that's just not right"?

Soren Kierkegaard of course placed God above even ethics as in the case of Abraham about to sacrifice his son Isaac. If one is commanded by God to do something, one does it if one is "faithful"-says Kierkegaard. In Kierkegaard's case, I believe he holds ethics to be an earthly, human affair and that God transcends all ethics.

But, yeah, it's a difficult question. Just reading some parts of the Bible or (apparently) the Koran there seem to be places that are ethically questionable and yet supposedly the will of God. It's also potentially scary to have people walking around believing that a little voice in their head that is telling them to do something bad, may be the voice of God. It's also scary to think that a spiritual leader could control an individual's ethical choices simply by telling that individual that God wills something. All in all, I say some of us humans are adults now and we can make our own ethical decisions without listening to fatherly voices telling us to do things, especially if those things are of questionable ethical merit.

Well put.

It seems that many Christians who I speak to about Yahweh torturing and murdering innocent children and babies have not gotten the memo that they should judge their God in an appropriate way.

They give their God love where they should be giving him hate for his inhuman and immoral actions.

Regards
DL

Skip wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:Yahweh and Allah. Are they moral and ethical Gods?

It's the same god. The Allah incarnation comes a little farther down the historical time-line, and the Roman Catholic Father (Numero Uno of the holy trinity) comes in between. His morality cannot be subjected to scrutiny, because gods are, by definition, above ethical and moral consideration. They hand rules down; they are not themselves bound by those - or any - rules.

Thus: For everything good, you should thank _______ [fill in appropriate deity] and for everything bad, you should be _______ [fill in appropriate punishment].

I have never bought into, --- any God being beyond my judgement, --- so cannot relate with that bit.

I agree that the Christian God evolved when Constantine bought the church.

He wanted to declare himself God so the Trinity idea had to be in the cannon.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote:
I have never bought into, --- any God being beyond my judgement, --- so cannot relate with that bit.

That makes you an atheist, like me.
Any being that we can judge is on the same plane as we are ourselves. We cannot fathom, and therefore cannot evaluate, any being that exists on a plane above ours - i.e. the divine. If you do not believe any entity is beyond your judgment, you do not believe in gods.

In its own rightful context - whichever particular mythology - each god behaves according to its own logic and sets it own moral standard, which is then imposed on the humans under its power, and they are judged.

Skip wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:
I have never bought into, --- any God being beyond my judgement, --- so cannot relate with that bit.

That makes you an atheist, like me.
Any being that we can judge is on the same plane as we are ourselves. We cannot fathom, and therefore cannot evaluate, any being that exists on a plane above ours - i.e. the divine. If you do not believe any entity is beyond your judgment, you do not believe in gods.

In its own rightful context - whichever particular mythology - each god behaves according to its own logic and sets it own moral standard, which is then imposed on the humans under its power, and they are judged.

I am not an atheist. I am a Gnostic Christian but admit that I am close enough to an atheist to suit most definitions of it.

I do not think we should believe in anything that is not proven to be true.

When atheists begin to recognize the reality of what Jung and Freud called the Father Complex, then they can start calling themselves Gnostic.

We think more the way the ancients did.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

We only have a hope for a supernatural God. We have no faith or belief in one and would likely kill it if it ever showed up to be man's master. If he came to serve, then we collectively would have to decide if we want such a God to cripple our evolution.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote:Yahweh and Allah. Are they moral and ethical Gods?

From what you know of Yahweh and Allah, and the religions they have spawned, would you say that those two War loving Gods, as we also love it in their image, good Gods, or would you say they are something else?

I would say one should fund a mental list, and put anyones name that wished to trash their inner intelligence for the words of the buy bull on it.

attofishpi wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:Yahweh and Allah. Are they moral and ethical Gods?

From what you know of Yahweh and Allah, and the religions they have spawned, would you say that those two War loving Gods, as we also love it in their image, good Gods, or would you say they are something else?

I would say one should fund a mental list, and put anyones name that wished to trash their inner intelligence for the words of the buy bull on it.

Indeed.

Thinking with the thoughts of others is a waste of time unless it has a logic trail to follow and that is certainly not the bible.

Regards
DL

If they indeed 'are', they are one and the same. And 'they' may be moral and ethical to their satisfaction, but not to mine. They are severely lacking in credibility. Screw me once, and I'll call you a son of a bitch, as you've earned the title.

Dalek Prime wrote:If they indeed 'are', they are one and the same. And 'they' may be moral and ethical to their satisfaction, but not to mine. They are severely lacking in credibility.

Those who find good morality in the Abrahamic cults have to cherry pick rather severely.

That is why we Gnostic Christians called Yahweh and Allah vile demiurges even 2,000 years ago.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:If they indeed 'are', they are one and the same. And 'they' may be moral and ethical to their satisfaction, but not to mine. They are severely lacking in credibility.

Those who find good morality in the Abrahamic cults have to cherry pick rather severely.

That is why we Gnostic Christians called Yahweh and Allah vile demiurges even 2,000 years ago.

Regards
DL

I still do.

Addendum: Wanna hear something funny? By coincidence, after I wrote that, it hailed. Lol!

Skip wrote:It's the same god. ...

Interesting one this as lately I've met a few African Christians who deny this as they say they follow the one true 'God' and Allah is a false 'God'. When I say but that means there are more than one 'God' they say of course but 'God' is the one true 'God'.

Dalek Prime wrote:

Greatest I am wrote:

Dalek Prime wrote:If they indeed 'are', they are one and the same. And 'they' may be moral and ethical to their satisfaction, but not to mine. They are severely lacking in credibility.

Those who find good morality in the Abrahamic cults have to cherry pick rather severely.

That is why we Gnostic Christians called Yahweh and Allah vile demiurges even 2,000 years ago.

Regards
DL

I still do.

Addendum: Wanna hear something funny? By coincidence, after I wrote that, it hailed. Lol!

Gulp.

Just a coincidence.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1ILPl5FQaM

Regards
DL

Arising_uk wrote:

Skip wrote:It's the same god. ...

Interesting one this as lately I've met a few African Christians who deny this as they say they follow the one true 'God' and Allah is a false 'God'. When I say but that means there are more than one 'God' they say of course but 'God' is the one true 'God'.

Sure, why not? All believers repeat whatever their puppet-master taught them by rote.
I was speaking as an uninvested bystander.