Philosophy Now Forum

bobevenson wrote:their lack of expressed outrage at the terrorists may indicate tacit support.

Then wouldn't the same be said for Christians or ANY people associated with groups through which terrorism, abuse, and hatred are channeled?

And how does expressing outrage signify clarity and intelligence and effectiveness?

Lacewing wrote:

bobevenson wrote:their lack of expressed outrage at the terrorists may indicate tacit support.

Then wouldn't the same be said for Christians or ANY people associated with groups through which terrorism, abuse, and hatred are channeled?

And how does expressing outrage signify clarity and intelligence and effectiveness?

What I am saying is if some members of a group do terrible things in the name of that group, other members of the group would normally express outrage so as not to be painted with the same brush. When have you ever heard a Muslim express outrage?

bobevenson wrote:their lack of expressed outrage at the terrorists may indicate tacit support.

Lacewing wrote:Then wouldn't the same be said for Christians or ANY people associated with groups through which terrorism, abuse, and hatred are channeled?

And how does expressing outrage signify clarity and intelligence and effectiveness?

bobevenson wrote:What I am saying is if some members of a group do terrible things in the name of that group, other members of the group would normally express outrage so as not to be painted with the same brush. When have you ever heard a Muslim express outrage?

Bob, why do you always have to go back to the single focus of what you think/say instead of taking in additional information/perspectives?

Yes... I saw what you were saying... and I offered more to consider.

Do you not see that the ignorance and destructiveness of humankind is not isolated to certain groups? And do you not see that clarity and intelligence and effectiveness do not necessarily require an expression of outrage? Have you heard significant outrage expressed by Christians for the horrific acts done in the name of Christianity? Or do most people try to quietly distance themselves? Why are you singling out Muslims?

P.S. When you formulate an opinion, will you believe what anyone else says anyway? Don’t you think people know that?

I can't be sure how this goes in other countries but certainly in Australia whenever a terrorist incident occurs there are always a number of leading figures from the Muslim community who express strong outrage about it and declare it to be un-Islamic. Many people are simply not interested in hearing this.

We mustn't forget the role of the media in all of this. Most of the general public only have an attention span of 30 seconds when it comes to newsworthy events and some illiterate shithead can get the jihadi message across easily in that time, and this makes for more exciting television. Allowing the facts to fuck up a good story is not good for audience ratings and thus for advertising revenue. Don't forget that the purpose of the media is to sell hamburgers and weight-loss programmes, not to tell people what's going on in the world.

bobevenson wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that what the Islamic terrorists are doing is sanctioned in the Quran, and if you believe in the Quran, you just might have some sympathies for the terrorists? And please, don't make me research the Quran to prove my point.

So what? Exactly the same atrocities are sanctioned over and over again in the Christian bible so this argument is a red herring. Lifting ancient words out of a metaphorical context and then applying a literal meaning to them in the modern day is not a logical fallacy exclusive to Islam. What about the bloke who physically vanished into the sky three days after he'd become a rotting corpse? Does this strike you as a story which must be taken literally in order to be valid as a tool for the spiritual enlightenment of an educated 21st century human being?

Obvious Leo wrote:

bobevenson wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that what the Islamic terrorists are doing is sanctioned in the Quran, and if you believe in the Quran, you just might have some sympathies for the terrorists? And please, don't make me research the Quran to prove my point.

So what? Exactly the same atrocities are sanctioned over and over again in the Christian bible.

Give me some examples, and when was the last time you heard about groups of Christians terrorizing the world? So don't give me your typical line of bullshit, OK?

bobevenson to Leo wrote: Give me some examples, and when was the last time you heard about groups of Christians terrorizing the world? So don't give me your typical line of bullshit, OK?

The hateful actions of the Westboro Baptist Church? Catholic priests abusing young boys? Christians telling non-Christians that they're unclean sinners and going to Hell to burn forever. Are these not forms of terrorization?

bobevenson wrote:when was the last time you heard about groups of Christians terrorizing the world?

I always have a radio on at this time of day so it was about 5 minutes ago.

bobevenson wrote:

Obvious Leo wrote:

bobevenson wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that what the Islamic terrorists are doing is sanctioned in the Quran, and if you believe in the Quran, you just might have some sympathies for the terrorists? And please, don't make me research the Quran to prove my point.

So what? Exactly the same atrocities are sanctioned over and over again in the Christian bible.

Give me some examples, and when was the last time you heard about groups of Christians terrorizing the world? So don't give me your typical line of bullshit, OK?

The Crusades are most notable. Then there are the gays being terrorized by the Church. I also count the KKK.

PhilX

Philosophy Explorer wrote:The Crusades are most notable. Then there are the gays being terrorized by the Church. I also count the KKK.

The Crusades were in the Middle Ages, the Church never blew up any gays, and the KKK wasn't terrorizing people because they didn't subscribe to the Bible.

bobevenson wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that what the Islamic terrorists are doing is sanctioned in the Quran, and if you believe in the Quran, you just might have some sympathies for the terrorists? And please, don't make me research the Quran to prove my point.

It isn't encouraged by the Quran. The Quran strictly forbids overthrowing the political order (in both Muslim and non Muslim states), that's the main reason why Wahhabists (a very strict and joyless bunch who basically run Saudi Arabia) regard ISIS as heretics and apostates.

Muslims are also well aware that casual racists like you expect them to apologise every time somebody they don't know, and who does not represent their beliefs in any way does something stupid and cruel. This is why they are always coming up with new variations on the theme of #youaintnomuslimbruv.

bobevenson wrote:

Philosophy Explorer wrote:The Crusades are most notable. Then there are the gays being terrorized by the Church. I also count the KKK.

The Crusades were in the Middle Ages, the Church never blew up any gays, and the KKK wasn't terrorizing people because they didn't subscribe to the Bible.

Your first point - do you mean the Church has reformed? Your second point - would you feel better if they used semiautomatics to kill? Your last point - KKK = WASP.

PhilX

bobevenson wrote:their lack of expressed outrage at the terrorists may indicate tacit support.

Like the Americans and the IRA? Although not so tacit in this case.