Philosophy Now Forum

There is no such thing as radical Islam, it is Islam that is radical. It is an intolerant 'religion', moreover it stands in fact as a political force where a totalitarian state must be implemented governing sharia law.

Radical islam focuses on the radical parts, moderate islam focuses on the moderate parts and leaves the radical parts out.
Ultra-Orthodox Jews focus on radical parts in Jewdaism (don´t press a button in an elevator on Sabath etc.).
Radical Christian sects do the same, they also focus on some radical parts.

duszek wrote:Radical islam focuses on the radical parts, moderate islam focuses on the moderate parts and leaves the radical parts out.
Ultra-Orthodox Jews focus on radical parts in Jewdaism (don´t press a button in an elevator on Sabath etc.).
Radical Christian sects do the same, they also focus on some radical parts.

Islam requires that non believers must be conquered and converted. Once converted, apostates must be killed. 86% of Muslims when surveyed in their mosques want sharia law implemented in the western countries that they have either migrated to, or born within.

What was radical about Christ's life in relation to the ethics and freedoms that we enjoy?

A large proportion of the koran is dedicated to war to spread its ideology. Where all other religions are tolerant of others, Islam instructs believers to kill and subjugate those that don't adhere to its ideology.

Which islam requires all this ?

That of sunnis, shiites, alevites, yesides (and there are many more branches, I don´t know their names even) ?
They disagree so much about what real islam requires that they kill each other as "non-believers".

What about the non-radicals? Are they not true practitioners?

duszek wrote:That of sunnis, shiites, alevites, yesides (and there are many more branches, I don´t know their names even) ?
They disagree so much about what real islam requires that they kill each other as "non-believers".

Precisely - well said.

Jaded Sage wrote:What about the non-radicals? Are they not true practitioners?

Not yet they are not - once the Muslims have the political majority they will call JIHAD - then ALL Muslims show their true colors.

Listen to Brigitte Gabriel's story of her life in Lebanon, which at the time was predominantly Christian prior to and after they had allowed so many Muslims into their country.
The "moderate" Muslims - her next door neighbours that used to share social times with her family over a barbeque etc.. Once the Muslims had the vote power, they called JIHAD and all the so called moderates started killing Christians, her neighbours even turned on her family.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPefjuIPpbY

attofishpi wrote: Islam requires that non believers must be conquered and converted. ...

No it doesn't. And if you think it does then you'd have to explain the Moors caliphate.

Once converted, apostates must be killed.

Nothing to do with conversion all apostates are under the death penalty.

86% of Muslims when surveyed in their mosques want sharia law implemented in the western countries that they have either migrated to, or born within.

There's lies, damned lies, and statistics. What was the sample size? What were the criteria in choosing the mosques, which Daily Mail article did you get this from? What was the question asked? As I reckon if you asked any Christian living in a non - christian country "Would you like to see Christian law implemented here?" they'd say yes.

What was radical about Christ's life in relation to the ethics and freedoms that we enjoy?

He preached a message of love but if you think that's why we have the freedoms we do you'd be barking up the wrong tree I think.

A large proportion of the koran is dedicated to war to spread its ideology. Where all other religions are tolerant of others, Islam instructs believers to kill and subjugate those that don't adhere to its ideology.

Not quite, as unlike Christianity Islam recognises that 'we' are all children of the book. Although I agree that Islam is not Christian with respect to war but note that Christ has not stopped Christian countries being at war nor engaging upon wars of conquest and colonisation, where they then imposes their religion upon the natives and squashed the indegineous religions.

Me, I think you all barking mad godbotherers.

attofishpi wrote: 86% of Muslims when surveyed in their mosques want sharia law implemented in the western countries that they have either migrated to, or born within.

94.48% of all statistics are the deliberate fabrication of those who quote them.

Arising_uk wrote:Christ has not stopped Christian countries being at war nor engaging upon wars of conquest and colonisation, where they then imposes their religion upon the natives and squashed the indegineous religions.

The early free settlers of Tasmania were all hard-working and god-fearing Christians but they had little in the way of light entertainment to occupy themselves on Sundays, which was a day intended to be set aside to do god's work rather than physically work the land. In order to carry out god's will, after dutifully attending their church services they would form themselves into shooting parties and head off into the bush to slaughter the indigenous population. So devout were they, and so diligent in the pursuit of god's directives, that they managed to wipe every last native Tasmanian man, woman and child off the face of the earth. History does not reveal whether or not god was satisfied with their efforts.

Obvious Leo wrote:

Arising_uk wrote:Christ has not stopped Christian countries being at war nor engaging upon wars of conquest and colonisation, where they then imposes their religion upon the natives and squashed the indegineous religions.

The early free settlers of Tasmania were all hard-working and god-fearing Christians but they had little in the way of light entertainment to occupy themselves on Sundays, which was a day intended to be set aside to do god's work rather than physically work the land. In order to carry out god's will, after dutifully attending their church services they would form themselves into shooting parties and head off into the bush to slaughter the indigenous population. So devout were they, and so diligent in the pursuit of god's directives, that they managed to wipe every last native Tasmanian man, woman and child off the face of the earth. History does not reveal whether or not god was satisfied with their efforts.

Whats all this talk of "Christians" got to do with anything. You are talking about barbaric people two hundred years ago with nothing in common with Christ or his message. Stop polluting an intelligent statement:- "Islam IS radical" with irrelevant bollocks.

Arising_uk wrote:

attofishpi wrote: Islam requires that non believers must be conquered and converted. ...

No it doesn't. And if you think it does then you'd have to explain the Moors caliphate.

Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness. (25:52)
--
Say to the Unbelievers, if (now) they desist (from Unbelief), their past would be forgiven them; but if they persist, the punishment of those before them is already (a matter of warning for them). And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do. (8:38-39)
--
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya [poll tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29)
--
Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah, - He will never let their deeds be lost. (47:4)

Arising_uk wrote:

attofishpi wrote:Once converted, apostates must be killed.

Nothing to do with conversion all apostates are under the death penalty.

Agreed. Any Muslim and ALL those converted if they leave Islam and become atheist or hold another religious belief must be killed. Nothing radical there then?

Arising_uk wrote:

attofishpi wrote: 86% of Muslims when surveyed in their mosques want sharia law implemented in the western countries that they have either migrated to, or born within.

There's lies, damned lies, and statistics. What was the sample size? What were the criteria in choosing the mosques, which Daily Mail article did you get this from? What was the question asked? As I reckon if you asked any Christian living in a non - christian country "Would you like to see Christian law implemented here?" they'd say yes.

Any Christian living in an Islamic country certainly would. Sharia that allows a young girl to be stoned to death for being raped by a married man is disgusting to any of non Islamic faith.
Christians have no directive from Christ to implement any 'law'.
The truth of it all is painful. From memory the survey was within Australia, i believe i was watching an ABC interview with a 'radical' muzzle em and they provided the statistic. Every Muslim they spoke to on the street stated they want sharia also. Wise up.

Arising_uk wrote:

attofishpi wrote:What was radical about Christ's life in relation to the ethics and freedoms that we enjoy?

He preached a message of love but if you think that's why we have the freedoms we do you'd be barking up the wrong tree I think.

I think you fail to see the true impact of a loving message instead of a message of war and hate.

Arising_uk wrote:

attofishpi wrote:A large proportion of the koran is dedicated to war to spread its ideology. Where all other religions are tolerant of others, Islam instructs believers to kill and subjugate those that don't adhere to its ideology.

Not quite, as unlike Christianity Islam recognises that 'we' are all children of the book. Although I agree that Islam is not Christian with respect to war but note that Christ has not stopped Christian countries being at war nor engaging upon wars of conquest and colonisation, where they then imposes their religion upon the natives and squashed the indegineous religions.

Yes i agree, Islam is not Christian with respect to war. "Christian" countries are not Christian with respect to war, unless they are defending against the spread of the evil ideology that is Islam.

Arising_uk wrote:Me, I think you all barking mad godbotherers.

Sure. The probem you need to wake up to, before its too late, is that although you may not be bothered by Christians, you WILL soon be bothered by the Islamic overtaking of British culture. Your children or grandchildren because of your apathy will by ruled by Sharia.
Again. Wise up.

Did you watch the video?
Listen to Brigitte Gabriel's story of her life in Lebanon, which at the time was predominantly Christian prior to and after they had allowed so many Muslims into their country.
The "moderate" Muslims - her next door neighbours that used to share social times with her family over a barbeque etc.. Once the Muslims had the vote power, they called JIHAD and all the so called moderates started killing Christians, her neighbours even turned on her family.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPefjuIPpbY

attofishpi wrote:Whats all this talk of "Christians" got to do with anything. You are talking about barbaric people two hundred years ago with nothing in common with Christ or his message.

That's clearly not the way they saw it because they were absolutely convinced they were doing their honourable duty as Christians. I was merely making the point that barbaric behaviour is not restricted to any particular belief system because it is how the the beliefs are interpreted which determines how people will behave in order to comply with the presumed dictates of their god. Obviously the beliefs are interpreted according to the agenda of the people doing the interpreting, who may or may not be believers themselves.

attofishpi wrote:There is no such thing as radical Islam, it is Islam that is radical. It is an intolerant 'religion', moreover it stands in fact as a political force where a totalitarian state must be implemented governing sharia law.

Religion is intolerant. It makes up a bunch of shit then forces people to swallow it and calls everyone else heretics, or infidels.
There was never a more totalitarian state than a Christian one.

attofishpi wrote: Islam ...

Scripture passages, really?
I can find ones that tell Muslims living in non-muslim countries that they have to obey the laws there. I can find inumerable references in the Bible about slaying and smiting one's foes.

I note you ignore history where Jews and Christians lived under an Islamic caliphate? Still, if you don't like history try current affairs and take a look at Indonesia.

Agreed. Any Muslim and ALL those converted if they leave Islam and become atheist or hold another religious belief must be killed. Nothing radical there then?

Compared to what? The last crusade that slaughtered the Cathars in the south of France? The English Christians calling the Danes to Church and then massacring them? The auto-de-fe's? The Nazi holocaust? The Catholic purge of the Protestants?

Any Christian living in an Islamic country certainly would. Sharia that allows a young girl to be stoned to death for being raped by a married man is disgusting to any of non Islamic faith.

The Hindu disagrees with you.

Christians have no directive from Christ to implement any 'law'.

Apart from the commandments that is and all the parables and all the priests telling you what to do.

The truth of it all is painful. From memory the survey was within Australia, i believe i was watching an ABC interview with a 'radical' muzzle em and they provided the statistic. Every Muslim they spoke to on the street stated they want sharia also. Wise up.

That's your poll? The word of a radical Muslim? Get real.

I think you fail to see the true impact of a loving message instead of a message of war and hate.

Hmm...let me think, nope you're right I see little difference in the results when it comes to War and slaughter. Any theist religion that thinks it the holder of the true word will be intolerant if given the opportunity.

attofishpi wrote: Yes i agree, Islam is not Christian with respect to war. "Christian" countries are not Christian with respect to war, unless they are defending against the spread of the evil ideology that is Islam.

You are not a Christian if you believe this. Do you have any idea how Christianity spread? It wasn't called the Holy Roman Empire for nothing.

...
The "moderate" Muslims - her next door neighbours that used to share social times with her family over a barbeque etc.. Once the Muslims had the vote power, they called JIHAD and all the so called moderates started killing Christians, her neighbours even turned on her family.

Hello! Christian Germany. Oh how easily the Jew is forgotten. Also killed long before in the Christian English pogrom. How about Christian Uganda?

No don't tell me, they aren't Christians. Always convienent that one.

Sure. The probem you need to wake up to, before its too late, is that although you may not be bothered by Christians, you WILL soon be bothered by the Islamic overtaking of British culture. Your children or grandchildren because of your apathy will by ruled by Sharia law.
Again. Wise up.

No you wise-up. Read some Mao and understand how radical movements achieve their revolutions abd understand how you are furthering their cause.
I am truly bothered by the situation as a rise in radicalism in one theist religion leads to a radical rise in other theist religions and even pantheist one's. So I am bothered that my daughters may in the future once again be under the patriarchs. My solution would be to shoot the fucking lot of you if only for your philosophical and political stupidity and that you are all quite clearly mad but unfortunately I think that unlikely.
With respect to British Islam taking over, do you know the actual percentage of Muslims in my country, not even 5% so I won't be holding my breath for any takeover. Now let's say there will be an issue because they are having more kids, the solution appears to be obvious, be fruitful and multiply, are you doing this? Even if not I'm still not that bothered as we are getting a fair chunk of Africans and they are pretty fundamentalist Christians and breeding at about the same rate and I can't see them going for Sharia law.

Do I think there is a chance of a militant caliphate threatening my nation in the future, yes i do. Unfortunately it looks like all our pissing about in the ME may just result in that happening. Do I think your scaremongering is furthering their cause, yes I do. You want my solution? Pull out and leave them to it as theist religions thrive on external enemies but remove that and they then thrive on heretical wars which will keep them occupied for a fair old time whilst you build your own defenses up. Unfortunately that'll leave the Jews up shit Creek but they'll probably nuke the lot of them or given their history themselves. All of this is bollocks of course as it's all about OIL!!

Please don't bother giving me links to boobtube as I don't click them as they are invariably biased emotive guff.