Philosophy Now Forum

Yes, being hu’man is what we do, which means nothing to all except for ourselves. There is no other life on this single rock in our Solar System that has any concern in what we believe, for their own being is what they do. So what gives us the idea we are special..? That what we have accomplished is only remarkable and significant for our own species. We are totally "hu'man-centric" to believe and live as if our very hu'manity has been bestowed upon us because "we are'. Included in that "we are" is a long over-looked fact - hu'manity is the youngest life form upon this planet... we are still learning to adapt and "become" what we instinctively (might) know as our full potential.

Potential is sorely lacking amongst our own... we far too often, clumsily, fall short in trying to do the 'right thing', often to the detriment of others of the living. What has ended the lives of other species before we ever stepped upon the earth, was natural phenomenon, i.e. natural disasters we're all familiar with that nobody has any control over. Other than that, life shows no greed, no needless killing, no behaviors that are uniquely our own hu'manity's doing.

It is "we" who are interested in "time" and have even created not only the word but the mechanisms of "it's" measurement to verify there is indeed, such a presence... a presence, btw, that has no proof, per se. Time is matter-less, we can only sense it, observe moments that have passed, but we cannot hold, touch it, smell or hear time... only thru the measuring devices we have created to verify times existence. Could that existence be our own insistence... our mind's insistence which tells us, "there must be time, there has to be such a presence for things DO change, DO evolve, DO live and die." Are these phenomena proof that time exists... or simply life IS..? Remember, no other life of any kind that lives upon this planet has any knowledge or even interest in measuring this invisible hu’man concept of time.

mtmynd1 ...
(time for me to have dinner)

"Time is what clocks measure"....Albert Einstein.

Clocks measure the rate of change in a physical system, therefore time and change are entirely synonymous constructs. Do you also regard change in a physical system as illusory because to define time as illusory and change as not illusory is a logical fallacy.

Does the apostrophe in hu'man have any particular significance? If it does have significance then what is it and if doesn't have significance then what the fuck is it there for?

Obvious Leo wrote:Clocks measure the rate of change in a physical system, therefore time and change are entirely synonymous constructs. Do you also regard change in a physical system as illusory because to define time as illusory and change as not illusory is a logical fallacy.

"Time is the passage of moments" - unknown

You are using what we hu'mans have come to call "mind" which is nothing more than a construct devised by hu'mans in order to categorize and label our knowledge... much like adding new books to a library in order to attempt to understand "our world", which is the "hu'man world" which has little to no significance to any other life forms which have inhabited the Universe far longer than ourselves.

Every fucking thing we do, every fucking thing we learn, every fucking thing we think or think we "know" is within the confines of our hu'manity. Anything beyond our ability to know or understand is within our own hu'man limitations, period. Why? "Being hu'man is what we do," and all we are capable of doing.

Obvious Leo wrote:
Does the apostrophe in hu'man have any particular significance? If it does have significance then what is it and if doesn't have significance then what the fuck is it there for?

You, sir, are fucking hilarious. It's clearly there to signify pretension.

mtmynd1 wrote: You are using what we hu'mans have come to call "mind"

You have me dead to rights. That is indeed what I am using. Since the concept is clearly a foreign one to you I'll ignore the fact that you neglected to address my point.

mtmynd wrote:Remember, no other life of any kind that lives upon this planet has any knowledge or even interest in measuring this invisible hu’man concept of time.

How do you know this?

Your good dog will wake you when you oversleep.

Walker wrote:Your good dog will wake you when you oversleep.

When my kids were still at school they had to catch the school bus every day. Every afternoon without fail my dog would head off to the bus stop about 5-10 minutes before the bus was due in order to greet them on arrival. I would defy most humans to be able to do this without the benefit of a clock. In fact dogs have an uncanny sense of time because I feed my dog at the same time every night and if I'm running a bit late she lets me know big time.

Here's something even more remarkable. The month of May is the traditional duck-shooting season in New Zealand but there are many waterways which are protected and where shooting is prohibited. Every year without fail, and throughout the entire country, the populations of ducks in these protected areas increases dramatically, but the truly remarkable thing is that this population increase occurs almost entirely during the last week in April!! There are literally thousands of such stories where animals have an intuitive grasp of time.

There you go. Gotta be grounded in fact.

mtmynd wrote:Other than that, life shows no greed, no needless killing, no behaviors that are uniquely our own hu'manity's doing.

I’ve heard that gangs of adolescent chimps can be quite tribal with their needless killing sprees.

We have some house cats in the neighborhood who go out at night and kill, apparently just for sake of killing, since they don't eat what they kill.

Walker wrote: Your good dog will wake you when you oversleep.

Your good dog, as any good dog will do, is hoping to please the "hand that feeds them". Indeed, they are able to understand when their master awakens or feeds them, etc, but that is learned hu'man behavior which the animal is following, again, to remain fed and sheltered.

Re:

Yes, being hu’man is what we do, which means nothing to all except for ourselves. There is no other life on this single rock in our Solar System that has any concern in what we believe, for their own being is what they do.

mtmynd1 wrote:

Walker wrote: Your good dog will wake you when you oversleep.

Your good dog, as any good dog will do, is hoping to please the "hand that feeds them". Indeed, they are able to understand when their master awakens or feeds them, etc, but that is learned hu'man behavior which the animal is following, again, to remain fed and sheltered.

Are you saying that dogs can learn human behaviour but humans can't? You might be onto something there.

How do birds know what time of year to build their nests if they have no sense of time? Do they learn that from humans too?

mtmynd1 wrote:

Walker wrote: Your good dog will wake you when you oversleep.

Your good dog, as any good dog will do, is hoping to please the "hand that feeds them". Indeed, they are able to understand when their master awakens or feeds them, etc, but that is learned hu'man behavior which the animal is following, again, to remain fed and sheltered.

I don't think a dog needs a theory about pleasing the hand that feeds. My dog responds to her needs, and those needs happen to include food and affection. The dog does not calculate the cost benefits. That happens in the selection process generation by generation.
affectionate and friendly dogs tend to be selected over grumpy violent ones, and as time goes by dogs tend to get more friendly and affectionate.
But each dog does not behave FOR A REASON: it just acts to its nature.

Obvious Leo wrote:Here's something even more remarkable. The month of May is the traditional duck-shooting season in New Zealand but there are many waterways which are protected and where shooting is prohibited. Every year without fail, and throughout the entire country, the populations of ducks in these protected areas increases dramatically, but the truly remarkable thing is that this population increase occurs almost entirely during the last week in April!! There are literally thousands of such stories where animals have an intuitive grasp of time.

There is a big danger of confusing cause and effect here.

Duck that habitually go to the no shoot zones, do not know they are in danger if they go elsewhere. It's just that populations of ducks that habitually live in no shoot zones tend to survive.

Most people I know can't tell the difference. Most people I know elevate science to a religion and have no sense of skepticism.