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Incoherent nonsense and babble!!waechter418 wrote:All our deeds, emotions, thoughts, creeds – and whatever else we are trying to relate ourselves with – are expression of consciousness which thus exercises its possibilities in order to realize itself.
That would be invoking the 2nd law of thermodynamics, but does it apply to consciousness?Greta wrote:All things are ultimately moving towards equilibrium, and the processes of consciousness would seem to be no exception.
Has Consciousness succeeded with everyone? If not, then that does actually mean Consciousness, ItSelf, does require a bit more effort to be fully heard, known, and understood.waechter418 wrote:That it does not succeed with everyone, might mean that it requires a bit of efforts.
waechter418 wrote:All our deeds, emotions, thoughts, creeds – and whatever else we are trying to relate ourselves with – are expression of consciousness which thus exercises its possibilities in order to realize itself.
Given that consciousness and matter are close bedfellows, that would seem likely.thedoc wrote:That would be invoking the 2nd law of thermodynamics, but does it apply to consciousness?Greta wrote:All things are ultimately moving towards equilibrium, and the processes of consciousness would seem to be no exception.
Whatever consciousness is or does what consciousness does not do is intend. What intends is the whole person who is capable of learning. Consciousness is a state of brain-mind in which a person has to be in order to learn or intend.waechter418 wrote:All our deeds, emotions, thoughts, creeds – and whatever else we are trying to relate ourselves with – are expression of consciousness which thus exercises its possibilities in order to realize itself.
How do you define consciousness? For me, I tend towards definitions that consciousness is "what it is like" as in, "what it is like to see red." The common example; imagine I have never experienced seeing the color red. If you gave me all the physical information, all starting conditions and physical laws, relevant to seeing color (wavelength, firing of my rods and cones, visual processing, etc.) I would certainly know a lot about seeing red. However, something unbridgeable will still be gained once I actually have the experience of seeing red.Belinda wrote:Whatever consciousness is or does what consciousness does not do is intend. What intends is the whole person who is capable of learning. Consciousness is a state of brain-mind in which a person has to be in order to learn or intend.waechter418 wrote:All our deeds, emotions, thoughts, creeds – and whatever else we are trying to relate ourselves with – are expression of consciousness which thus exercises its possibilities in order to realize itself.
(B) I don't think you should be embarassed! Let's put it on Twitter!SnarkyBuddha wrote:(Snarky Buddha)How do you define consciousness? For me, I tend towards definitions that consciousness is "what it is like" as in, "what it is like to see red." The common example; imagine I have never experienced seeing the color red. If you gave me all the physical information, all starting conditions and physical laws, relevant to seeing color (wavelength, firing of my rods and cones, visual processing, etc.) I would certainly know a lot about seeing red. However, something unbridgeable will still be gained once I actually have the experience of seeing red.Belinda wrote:Whatever consciousness is or does what consciousness does not do is intend. What intends is the whole person who is capable of learning. Consciousness is a state of brain-mind in which a person has to be in order to learn or intend.waechter418 wrote:All our deeds, emotions, thoughts, creeds – and whatever else we are trying to relate ourselves with – are expression of consciousness which thus exercises its possibilities in order to realize itself.
(Belinda)So would you say that your definition is solely mental? Mine is physical too as well as mental. Unfortunately and for anatomical reasons we cannot empirically correlate the subjective perception with the objective perception, and have to correlate only by by correlating subjects' private reports, or interpreting their behaviours together with anatomical events. Reflex movements are closer than are e.g. memories to empirical observations of conjunctions of events.
SB)With this definition, I don't see how consciousness could in any way be necessary to learning or intention. A being with our complex hardware could move about and learn, and make decisions based on what was learned, all without having any subjective experience of "what it's like." In fact, it's hard to imagine any functional role for consciousness. We could just as easily be beings "with the lights put out" as Sam Harris calls it.
(B)Me too I can't see any functional role for consciousness. We really have to beware of empowered machines! I do see an evolutionary cause of consciousness though.
(SB)This brings me back to the original post. While I wouldn't call deeds, emotions, thoughts, creeds, etc. expressions of consciousness, it is true that, for us at least, they seem inextricably tied to it.
(B) I'm reasonably sure they are tied to it, for us at least.
(SB)If this is merely phenomenological, and not functional, then it is easy to say it is meaningless, and that it realizing itself cannot provide any answers to life. I'd like to believe that consciousness does carry some meaning with it, that perhaps it is the meaning, a universe that is not completely dark, where at least some of the lights are left on.(I like to too.
(B)It's a religious thing isn't it? To fancy that we are the universe looking at itself?
(SB)I don't know if this is falsifiable at all, and I should thus be embarrassed to run around with the idea, but I'm having fun with it
waechter418 wrote:All our deeds, emotions, thoughts, creeds – and whatever else we are trying to relate ourselves with – are expression of consciousness which thus exercises its possibilities in order to realize itself.
Well, perhaps not to realize itself, for that it would already have done, but to just live life as in I make a store or movie and then make money and also enjoy my creation, not so much as to explore possibilities or avenues or heights or depths, but just live life.waechter418 wrote:All our deeds, emotions, thoughts, creeds – and whatever else we are trying to relate ourselves with – are expression of consciousness which thus exercises its possibilities in order to realize itself.