Philosophy Now Forum

It's a puzzle to me. Here are a couple of examples:

1) Take any four-sided figure (randomness). Connect the side's midpoints with straight lines. You'll always get a parallelogram whose opposite sides are equal in length (more ordered). This is surprising.

2) Nature started out random. Eventually Neanderthal evolved with a certain amount of brainpower and then Homo Sapiens happened along with even more brainpower or a more-ordered state. Again surprising.

Should we expect that with any system, no matter how random, there'll be more ordered aspects to it and then even more and more order with each derived system?

PhilX

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Nature started out random

It is important in this context that the precise meaning of random is understood. For it does
not mean literally anything at all but one particular outcome from a number of probabilities
And so while it might not be possible to determine that in advance it is still within limitation

Nature is the least random thing I can think of. It's tremendously complex, which might give an impression of randomness. But the laws of physics is always followed. Always. Ok, my son, who currently studies physics in university has one or two to complicate this with but nevertheless, the guy who, quite a long time ago, set a million dollar(or pound, I dont remember) prize to someone who could come up with something proven as supernatural. I've not heard that anyone successfully have claimed that million.

Pretty boring, really, and it seems as if I'm not he only one who thinks so, jugding from the sales of Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings books and movies.

Ansiktsburk wrote:Nature is the least random thing I can think of. It's tremendously complex, which might give an impression of randomness. But the laws of physics is always followed. Always. Ok, my son, who currently studies physics in university has one or two to complicate this with but nevertheless, the guy who, quite a long time ago, set a million dollar(or pound, I dont remember) prize to someone who could come up with something proven as supernatural. I've not heard that anyone successfully have claimed that million.

What about QM for example? Both the position and speed of a particle can't be determined with 100% precision which means randomness. What is the composition of dark matter? What is dark energy? Is the Standard Model complete? (some physicists doubt it) How did mankind arise? What was the process involved? Saying evolution isn't an answer as it doesn't explain how the human brain evolved - was it random/accidental or was there something specific behind it? Science is made up of models which no one can ever prove that they're tantamount to laws.

PhilX

Randomness and random chance might always be occurring throughout time and space; but to say existence is increasingly
more ordered is jumping to a conclusion based upon perspective - Another words we may see more order and more complexity all the time because of an evolving Human brain - But whether there was an a priori order always in effect is unknown -- I've yer to see how from a chaotic nothing order could develop - And all of science and physics tells us that the universe and all of existence is based upon logical order - So to sum up what I'm saying is that though we might see existence as more ordered today than say thousands of years ago, it does not meant it actually is more ordered - though the Human psyche and physical brain might be more ordered - probably because of Evolution.