Philosophy Now Forum

So this is my first post, I am new here and I am not a native speaker. Excuse me if I make any mistakes in it.
I am an atheïst and do not believe in any higher power.

Like the title says I am struggling.
This society is doomed. Let me explain why I think that way.

We are forgetting our priorities and we have let the capitalistic system to take over our minds. It has made the normal people to slowly disconnect from culture such as art and literature. Having these "busy" lives as we do now because of our meaningless jobs and our time pressure has us made to prioritize our jobs (capitalism) above culture and the environment.

Cultural activities such as writing poetry or making a painting are extremely important to our individual development. It gives us time to express our emotions and just sit there thinking about life and the little things. Instead of everyone doing that sort of vital activities we are thaught to go to work and go to school. Learning and doing what the system wants us to learn and do.

I can go on and on about culture and how it helps our minds to develop, but I assume most people here have already come to that conclusion.

We also neglecting the environment in name of the capital. Producing ( not sure how to say it in English so pardon me ) fumes out of our cars is known to be bad for the environment, but if we pay for it (taxes) we can harm mother nature. It is sickening me. We are bending our morals. These new morals are capitalistic morals. Money can make bad things good.

We have prioritized our jobs and money above our own intellectual mind and this planet.
We have prioritized the capitalistic made-up world above the real world. It is insane.

I am not saying jobs are a bad thing.
What I am trying to say is that our lives should not be about our jobs, but that our jobs should help us in life instead of the other way around.

Time should not even exist. It is not a real thing.
I am not gonna explain that right now because I want you, if you have not already, think about it and come to that conclusion.

We working people are enslaved and put into this life where you have to work where you are merely but a product for the company. We have to put up with long shifts and harmfull stress and it makes us sick. But when we come home in this warm house, sit in our nice and cozy seat, eat some potato chips and watch television which we all had to buy with our money from our hard working life we think : oh whatever I am fine now, without work I would not have these kind of moments.

We use capitalism so we can have moments where we forget our capitalistic lifes ; holidays etc.
The irony on this one is so huge.
We think we need capitalism to forget about capitalism.

The capital is putting out luxury products and amusement which we can only buy by working to make our simple lives good enough to endure.

If people do not want to believe this, I would like to point out America.
The most capitalistic country in this world. It also has the largest entertainment business and it is known to make a show out of everything. Our fellow work-enslaved people in America are getting really stressfull lives. All in return they get a show where they forget their miserable and simple lives. Americans are often called dumb by Europeans. This is not true. They are just thaught to work hard and may in return play hard, within capitalistic rules. Tasteless entertainment is merely a capitalistic product to make us look away while they thighten our chains.

They are giving us a simple life.
It is up to you if you either play by their rules or if you make your own life where everyone of us can develop themselves as an individual.

Obviously without a global revolution this is not gonna stop. Before we can get to such a revolution we have to unite as people. This cannot happen if we are in war which is what the capital wants since it distracts us, makes them money and gives us the illusion that your country is worth fighting for.

Nations are not a good thing. It seperates people from people and categorize them.

We will obviously never be able to overcome capitalism.
We are too late.

That is why I want to run away with a select group of people into the wild and do it the way so us people can have a true meaningful life.

Just so we can do it right.

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I enjoyed your articulated assessment of where humanity is at this moment. Overall I agree with you.


Marx said that Capitalism is the quickest route to Socialism.

Because of the advent of technology Democratic Socialism is on the horizon.

Hang in there. Running away and starting something new is noble & doable. As you probably already know there are even colonies in place now that may be close to what you want to experience.

Good luck. You have a noble presence.


You do need people and you also need to continue to listen to your heart.







...............................................................Everyman





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Thomascbk wrote:...

That is why I want to run away with a select group of people into the wild and do it the way so us people can have a true meaningful life. ...

You think you'll have time for Art and Literature living in the wild?

Arising_uk wrote:

Thomascbk wrote:...

That is why I want to run away with a select group of people into the wild and do it the way so us people can have a true meaningful life. ...

You think you'll have time for Art and Literature living in the wild?

I am sorry for my poor explanation on what i meant by that.
I would like to imagine that I went with a group of people and build a small colony in the wild where surviving isn't something to worry about.
And than we would have time for such things, my main point is that we should make time for art and literature.
If we could change our relationship to our jobs and destroy this system than it all would be fine with me, but my imagination, how sad as it seems to be, seems even more realistic.

Your project sounds wonderful, like a Robinson Cruso advanture, but how can you sustain yourself ?
Can you sell your art and literature ?
Or do you grow your own food and don´t need heating in winter because the climate is warm enough all the time ?

duszek wrote:Your project sounds wonderful, like a Robinson Cruso advanture, but how can you sustain yourself ?
Can you sell your art and literature ?
Or do you grow your own food and don´t need heating in winter because the climate is warm enough all the time ?

Hello!

Thank you for your excitement !

I have only thought several hours about that project, mainly because I do not think I can come up with some sort of idea all by myself and even if I could it would be only mine perception and I do not like to dictate for the others so I would love to figure that out with other people.

What I have come up with thusfar is to be self-sufficient and to be under the radar from the ''normal'' world, since they have claimed all land and will most likely not allow such a thing to happen. Growing our own food etc. It may seem hard to do, but it is what we have been doing for thousand of years. The difference is that I want us not to grow as an economy but as intellectuals, do physical excersices and just make the best out all of us.

Certainly we will not have as much luxury as we do now, but we will realise soon enough that luxury does not make our life quality better.
It only makes some things easier and thus makes it us lazy.

If you want to talk more about it with me you can always send me a private message.

I do not qualify for your project because I am used to basic necessities like food and heating etc.

Please report about your experiences and so we can discuss it in public and perhaps suggest some good ideas to you.

There is still lots of empty space in the US and in Russia as far as I know. Not to mention Canada.
People could do survival camps there probably.

I once saw a lecture and pictures of staying beyond the polar circle in Sweden, building one´s own iglo outside etc. It was an organized adventure tour.

I am one of those who would love make a so called early retirement.
With enough money to live just above the poverty line, like an austere monk.

The empty space in Russia has been my first choice, but I also have not thought about a location that specific yet.
Making me realise your suggestions would be a good thing indeed!

I am warning you that I can be a little bit of an idealistic person sometimes.

At first I want a good selection from the people that should join. They should be rather intelligent and they should be thinking about philosophy quiet a lot. Also, it should be said that it is not a sect, I will probably contradict myself about that later on, if so just point it out to me.

At second we should be thinking about a location as you already said. I leave this open

Third point we should think about is how we will produce food, buildings, protect ourselves and survive. This will not be that hard as we can look back in history to our ancestors who lived in equal locations.

After that we reach some social problems such as education, rules, work and health care, which is gonna be interesting because that is where I want us to do better.

About education: there should be a sort of school where you can learn anything you want and whenever you want. We will teach the bare essentials such as music, philosophy, art, literature, writing and reading etcetera to young children untill they are wise enough to make their own decisions. We will just have to make sure they will not receive any stress in this period.

About the economy: it will depend on how we produce food, if all of us individuals will produce for their own there will be a social difference since not everyone will do exactly the same. If we do than we will have different kind of jobs so there will also be a social difference. We could work in shifts where there is a rotation in what everybody has to do, but than there will be things you HAVE to do. The best thing would be, I guess, if we are all educated in most things and we put up a checklist of work there has to be done and whoever wants to do it will do that. We should not be lazy in that case haha. But since we are not as decadent as we are now that will be no problem for us.

Population should be kept low, also I can not put a birth limit for someone since I am not their boss/god, but when it reaches an excessively high rate of people we should already have a plan on how to deal with that.


I think we should bring as many books as possible, books about philosophy, architecture, farming, poetry, literature and a lot of study books. Etc.

That is a really nice thing to be doing and it will give you a lot of new experiences and insights.

If you want to do that, just do that.
I do not know how old you are and if you are ready to do such a thing. You should not be waiting for it, because if you have goals set and things to do in this world. It will make you live your life for other people instead of yourself since your job and tasks here are all made-up ideas to make this world work.

And if you just do not want to do that yet than that is fine too.

What im trying to say is: dont let yourself getting held back by other people in what you want. In the end we all die and we are all the same amount of dust so you better have done what you wanted to do instead of what someone else wanted you to do. Because its your life.

Comfort derives from specialization of labour.
If you have to do everything yourself from scratch then you have to work hard indeed all the time.

The only easy thing for me to do is to give up lots of gadgets and luxuries, like cars, TV, travels, mobile phones, fashionable cloths and much more.

People in the Amazonian forests sleep in hamacks and not in beds. Also when they travel in a boat for several days they spend the night in their own hamacks suspended in one big room, one beside and above the other.
Is a bed a luxury that we can do without ?

You are right about specialization giving us comfort.
Our jobs should not be done by machinery but by handcraft. In that way we can enjoy our jobs and like I said they will help us in our lifes instead of the other way around. Than we can only hope we have enough people that like being a farmer etc.

I do not think we should have to give up our beds.
We could build houses/shacks with a bed etc. so I do not think that our survival/basic needs are going to be any of a big problem.

However we will be needing rules and some kind of economics with money or trading or just giving away things whenever someone needs it.
Politics
Economics
Education
Health care

Those four points are the most difficult to organize and to do right.

However I would like to know what you think would be a good location.

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..................................................................When I was young...


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Thomascbk wrote:I am sorry for my poor explanation on what i meant by that. ...

No need for an apology.

I would like to imagine that I went with a group of people and build a small colony in the wild where surviving isn't something to worry about. ...

But building a colony in the wild is exactly where surviving is the worry?

And than we would have time for such things, my main point is that we should make time for art and literature. ...

But you'll be to busy growing and building to have that time?

If we could change our relationship to our jobs and destroy this system than it all would be fine with me, but my imagination, how sad as it seems to be, seems even more realistic.

I think you need to re-think your thoughts about Capitalism as by and large it is this system that has allowed the greatest number to indulge in the Arts. That many don't has always been the problem of 'bread and circuses' but more people than ever now have the time for leisure pursuits and to engage with or become artists.

Hi thanks for the reply
Well I kind of drifted away from the statement I was trying to make. It was not my intention to make it about the colony stuff which I to be honest have not given that much thoughts before I wrote it down.

Art was just one example of what we are neglecting. Just as our own health. We undergo larger amounts of stress than we could handle during our schooltime and our jobs.
We look at it as if it is collateral damage. Damage to our bodys we could not prevent because we think it had to be done.

No one should ever be getting such insane amounts of stress, but if its for the money it is all good. The same way as how damage to the environment is being compensated by paying for it. No matter how much money you lay down for it. It does not make something good. Money is fake. It is like giving a kiss on a childs knee after it tripped. The child thinks it is all good again and does not know any better. But it is still hurt.

We are not thinking about what is important anymore.
We assume the capital is the most important thing in the world.

We need to get our priorities straight.