Philosophy Now Forum

What accounts for the fact that some students are super-devoted and therefore wholesome, and some are undevoted and therefore not wholesome?

Plato says this will happen: someone correctly practicing philosophy (we will call this both the art of living and studying in general) will become wholesome because of what he studies, disdain doing unwholesome things, and make social life a secondary priority. This became true of me, but my fellow students became as Plato said the majority of students become: vice-ridden. I also became significantly happier than my fellow students, as Plato suggested would happen. I assume it was because of a sincere investment of devotion. What causes the difference, and how can we fix the problem?

I'm wondering if you are using the word "wholesome" in a technical way that differs from its standard meaning. What does it mean to you? There's nothing inherently unwholesome about slacking off and dropping out. Steve Jobs was a famous dropout, as was Bill Gates.

I don't mean students as in being enrolled in school or university. I mean studiers or learners. So I agree there is nothing unwholesome about dropping out. By wholesome I mean both virtuous and conducive to virtue.

Virtue is an even more murky concept than wholesomeness. Is this a language issue perhaps? What is virtue? Why is being "vice ridden" bad? Are you making some kind of Puritan argument, that we should be slaves to our work and avoid pleasure? Your question seems to carry many hidden assumptions.

Genes, environment, that kind of shit?

Myself, I'm pretty lazy, even though I try not to be. But I still made better than the little mathrobots in university, and people makes me boss and leader for things. The super-devoted one often likes to run away into some detailed alley and looses the general picture.

Ok,there are guys who are devoted and still keeps the general picture uptodate. Those guys earn more money than me. Thats ok by me.

But I would say that it's mostly in the brain you are born with, if you manage to get born in an at least non-chaos and non-poor family. My son is as lazy as me. My daughter is as superdevoted as her mother.

Edit:
And then I read the thread a little longer, an then It's the other way around. When it comes to study something just for the hell of it, there is no-one more devoted than me. But I'm kind of the sub-optimizing fool I described above when it comes to learn stuff that interests me. Pretty narrow, useless stuff Like plato's dialogues and such (except for Parmenides). Because my brain was made for it. Time flies when I read.

But the answer is the same. it's all in the brain.

So nobody has an explanation?

Jaded Sage wrote:So nobody has an explanation?

What's wrong with genes and environment? Personality?

The question is quite similar to "who is creative".

Have you got any examples of "vice-ridden" ?

Many students are not really motivated to learn what they are expected to learn at school or at the university.
It must be a question of motivation mainly.

French can be nightmare for many students in the UK. But if you have a girlfriend or a boyfriend who is French then you are motivated to learn French all the time and it becomes a pleasure and you become excellent. You try to write love letters in French, you learn by heart the love letters that you get. You meditate over them. French is the most beautiful language in the world. You listen to France Culture whenever you can. You dream in French.

Ansiktsburk wrote:

Jaded Sage wrote:So nobody has an explanation?

What's wrong with genes and environment? Personality?

I don't see those as being as big of a factor as many people think it is.

Are you looking for the "right mindset" or something like that?

Only if the "right mindset" is the cause of it. I'm looking for the cause.

Jaded Sage wrote:What accounts for the fact that some students are super-devoted and therefore wholesome, and some are undevoted and therefore not wholesome?

Plato says this will happen: someone correctly practicing philosophy (we will call this both the art of living and studying in general) will become wholesome because of what he studies, disdain doing unwholesome things, and make social life a secondary priority. This became true of me, but my fellow students became as Plato said the majority of students become: vice-ridden. I also became significantly happier than my fellow students, as Plato suggested would happen. I assume it was because of a sincere investment of devotion. What causes the difference, and how can we fix the problem?

Your premise is false. What about wholesome students that are not devoted, and unwholesome students that are devoted? I understand that Hitler was a devoted artist; Churchill a poor student.

Jaded Sage wrote:What accounts for the fact that some students are super-devoted and therefore wholesome, and some are undevoted and therefore not wholesome?

Plato says this will happen: someone correctly practicing philosophy (we will call this both the art of living and studying in general) will become wholesome because of what he studies, disdain doing unwholesome things, and make social life a secondary priority. This became true of me, but my fellow students became as Plato said the majority of students become: vice-ridden. I also became significantly happier than my fellow students, as Plato suggested would happen. I assume it was because of a sincere investment of devotion. What causes the difference, and how can we fix the problem?

There is no such fact.

That's kind of missing the point. What causes the wholesomeness causing super-devotion? By super-devoted I guess I mean something like to busy or too interested to do anything unwholesome or become unwholesome in any way, as if there is no time or interest to.

Jaded Sage wrote:That's kind of missing the point. What causes the wholesomeness causing super-devotion?

It's hard to see what you are looking for. One thing - have you met someone who have gone from lazy and undevoted to devoted? The only time I have seen that is when someone have found their special interest after a long time. Or when hardships of life has been lifted from their shoulders.

If there is something "smart" that can make you devoted instead of lazy for studies in a given area - please tell me! I stink at reading things because I should.