Philosophy Now Forum

Is there a reliable, and presumably objective, way to prove someone happy or unhappy (outside of brain-scans)?

A smile, a twinkle in the eye, warmth and wit.

Prove, no, I don't think so.
You have to take their word for it, along with their demeanour and response to the world. But you'd have to make the observation at two-day intervals over a long period, because even happy people have disappointments, toothaches and bad moods; even unhappy people have their small triumphs and optimistic moments.

Jaded Sage wrote:Is there a reliable, and presumably objective, way to prove someone happy or unhappy (outside of brain-scans)?

..this isn't philosophy, this is love for stupidity.

Couldn't you go somewhere else and spew your stupidity there?

Daniel Kahneman has written about "objective happiness" that might help answer this question: http://profron.net/happiness/files/read ... piness.pdf

Jaded Sage wrote:Is there a reliable, and presumably objective, way to prove someone happy or unhappy (outside of brain-scans)?

What do you not understand by the meanings of 'subjective" and "happiness"?

Happiness is a state of mind that obtains inside an individual consciousness. But, among social animals, states of mind are communicable and may accurately be described as contagious. One sheep is spooked; they all start running - and they are all genuinely frightened, even though they didn't see the wolf. One baboon is angry, starts jumping up and down in a threatening way; it doesn't take long for the whole tribe to turn into a howling mob. On miserable old woman can depress the whole ward in a nursing home.

And one optimistic, happy person can.... get shunned by a bunch of misanthropes. Or cheer them up.

Skip wrote:Happiness is a state of mind that obtains inside an individual consciousness. But, among social animals, states of mind are communicable and may accurately be described as contagious. One sheep is spooked; they all start running - and they are all genuinely frightened, even though they didn't see the wolf. One baboon is angry, starts jumping up and down in a threatening way; it doesn't take long for the whole tribe to turn into a howling mob. On miserable old woman can depress the whole ward in a nursing home.

And one optimistic, happy person can.... get shunned by a bunch of misanthropes. Or cheer them up.

i.e. Smile at a stranger everyday.

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Jaded Sage wrote:Is there a reliable, and presumably objective, way to prove someone happy or unhappy (outside of brain-scans)?

What do you not understand by the meanings of 'subjective" and "happiness"?

Based on what do you say it is subjective?

Jaded Sage wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Jaded Sage wrote:Is there a reliable, and presumably objective, way to prove someone happy or unhappy (outside of brain-scans)?

What do you not understand by the meanings of 'subjective" and "happiness"?

Based on what do you say it is subjective?

What do you mean "it"?

Hobbes' Choice wrote:

Jaded Sage wrote:

Hobbes' Choice wrote:
What do you not understand by the meanings of 'subjective" and "happiness"?

Based on what do you say it is subjective?

What do you mean "it"?

Happiness. Isn't that what you meant? If not, what were you saying?

HexHammer wrote:

Jaded Sage wrote:Is there a reliable, and presumably objective, way to prove someone happy or unhappy (outside of brain-scans)?

..this isn't philosophy, this is love for stupidity.

Couldn't you go somewhere else and spew your stupidity there?

How does it feel to know that your absence makes this forum a better place? I won't give up on you yet though. WHY do you say this is stupid? Is happiness stupid? Is the answer to the original question too obvious? Back up your claim. Explain yourself as you would a child—that is what they teach us to do at the university level. Why do you say this is stupid?

Hobbes' Choice wrote: i.e. Smile at a stranger everyday.

Yes, that's a good policy. Hold the bus door open for a mother with a baby buggy and you reduce the chance of that mother becoming frustrated, the baby getting yelled at and growing up to be a mugger. It all goes in the pot.

Skip wrote:Happiness is a state of mind that obtains inside an individual consciousness. But, among social animals, states of mind are communicable and may accurately be described as contagious. One sheep is spooked; they all start running - and they are all genuinely frightened, even though they didn't see the wolf. One baboon is angry, starts jumping up and down in a threatening way; it doesn't take long for the whole tribe to turn into a howling mob. On miserable old woman can depress the whole ward in a nursing home.

And one optimistic, happy person can.... get shunned by a bunch of misanthropes. Or cheer them up.

That's an interesting tanget. I've noticed that about happiness. Is that the only emotion that seems to conjure its opposite, or do others as well. I once heard, on an episode of the Office, that, "Sometime when one person freaks out, the other gets weirdly calm." Do you think that's true? What emotions have you seen that conjure their opposites in others. I've seen fear and anger conjure themselves in others, and happiness does both.

Well, no, I don't really think that normal states of mind produce their opposite in other people. It's far more likely for cheerfulness or glumness to spread from person to person, like the flu.
But I can see that about freaking out. That would be an anomalous, or exceptional condition. If one person is angry, the other members of the group can go from a neutral state to a little bit grumpy to irritable to downright ornery in stages, but probably not all at once, without a trigger that affects them all. By trigger, I mean an event that affects similar mind-sets in a predictable way. For example, when some terrorist blows up a building, whole blocs of people hearing about it, might feel the same extreme emotion at the same time.
But if one person in an office gets the news that their son has just been killed, and begins to sob uncontrollably, all the others are not stricken with grief. They may feel sympathy, embarrassment, anxiety, sorrow, relief that it wasn't their son, shame over that relief... all kinds of different reactions. So they will appear weirdly calm and edge tentatively toward, or away from, the stricken one, until they each come to terms with how they feel and what the appropriate response may be.